Normalization of 4-velocity in general relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the normalization of 4-velocity in general relativity, particularly how the relation used in Minkowski space can be generalized to curved spacetime. Participants explore the implications of this normalization in the context of the Schwarzschild metric and the effects of gravitational fields on time evolution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that in Minkowski space, the 4-velocity is normalized as ημν Uμ Uν = -1, and question how this generalizes to gμν Uμ Uν = -1 in curved space.
  • One participant suggests that the correspondence principle allows for the replacement of ημν with gμν to derive equivalent results in general relativity.
  • Another participant provides the Schwarzschild metric and proposes a specific form for the 4-velocity of a stationary observer, indicating that it reflects the dependence of time evolution on spatial position in a gravitational field.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of the Schwarzschild metric and how it relates to local versus distant observations, noting that locally the spacetime appears Minkowskian.
  • There is a discussion about changing variables to derive a "restated" form of the Schwarzschild metric, with participants exploring different approaches and expressing uncertainty about the correctness of their methods.
  • One participant challenges the validity of a proposed change of variable, emphasizing the need for careful consideration of differential elements and their impact on the metric.
  • Another participant expresses dissatisfaction with vague assertions about the correctness of the derived metric and seeks a more rigorous explanation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the basic principles of 4-velocity normalization but express differing views on the implications and derivations related to the Schwarzschild metric. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to derive the "restated" metric and the validity of proposed changes of variables.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of the mathematical transformations involved in changing variables and the influence of those changes on the metric's structure. There are also unresolved questions about the relationship between local and global observations in curved spacetime.

  • #31
It seems that you are treating R as a constant, but I still don't see how to use
jmlaniel said:
\bar{t} = t \sqrt{1-R_s/R}

\bar{r} = \frac{r}{\sqrt{1-R_s/R}}

to go from
jmlaniel said:
Here is the "standard" Schawzschild metric :

ds^2 = -\left( 1-R_s/r \right) dt^2 + \left( 1-R_s/r \right)^{-1} dr^2 + r^2 d\Omega^2

to
jmlaniel said:
then I get the following metric :

ds^2 = -\frac{(1-R_s/\bar{r})}{(1-R_s/R)} d\bar{t}^2 + \frac{(1-R_s/R)}{(1-R_s/\bar{r})}d\bar{r}^2 + \bar{r}^2 (1-R_s/R) d\Omega^2

For example, using

dt = \frac{d\bar{t}}{\sqrt{1-R_s/R}}

r = \bar{r} \sqrt{1-R_s/R}

in the first term of the standard Schwarzschild metric gives

\left( 1-R_s/r \right) dt^2 = \frac{\left( 1 - \frac{R_s}{\bar{r} \sqrt{1-R_s/R}} \right)}{1-R_s/R} d\bar{t}^2 .
 
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  • #32
jmlaniel said:
Here are my new variables :

\bar{t} = t \sqrt{1-R_s/R}

\bar{r} = \frac{r}{\sqrt{1-R_s/R}}

then I get the following metric :

ds^2 = -\frac{(1-R_s/\bar{r})}{(1-R_s/R)} d\bar{t}^2 + \frac{(1-R_s/R)}{(1-R_s/\bar{r})}d\bar{r}^2 + \bar{r}^2 (1-R_s/R) d\Omega^2

But, like George, I don't understand how this is obtained by the transformation proposed above. Nor do I get the meaning of R in your equations. It is most likely that a factor (\sqrt{1-R_s/R}}) is missing in the denominator of R/\bar{r} from the time component of the metric.

AB
 
  • #33
I have to agree with George and Altabeh... I did not see the effect of the new r in the metric factor. My solution is entirely wrong :frown: But thanks a lot for pointing it out!

I have tried for the last hour to find a way to fix this and I am unable to do so. I will have to conlude that kev metric is suspicious... Unless anybody can find a way to justify this metric, I will have to say that it is imposisble to get from the standard Schwarzschild metric with a change of variable.

I really tried to accept this metric, but I can figure it out.
 

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