Numb3rs: A Missed Opportunity for Mathematical Accuracy

[Icebreaker]

You're too literal. You can certainly use an example, say, poking a beehive and the consequences thereof, as an analogy of Newton's third law.

 

[franznietzsche]

You're too literal. You can certainly use an example, say, poking a beehive and the consequences thereof, as an analogy of Newton's third law.

When speaking to a 3 year old, or person of equivalent intellect (read: the audience this show is meant for), then sure.

If you're trying to give a valid scientific explanation then no. If you're trying to pass off what you're saying as scientifically valid, then no.

 

[polyb]

But i am superman!

OK 'superman', able to solve an ODEs in a couple of lines, try this!

Reductio ad absurdum-there is truly only one operation in mathematics. Care to guess?

 

[franznietzsche]

OK 'superman', able to solve an ODEs in a couple of lines, try this!

Reductio ad absurdum-there is truly only one operation in mathematics. Care to guess?

ODEs are much easier than NLDEs, particularly second order ones. Bring out the programming skills for those.

As for the one true operation...

...this is probably wrong, but here is my guess and justification for:

Addition.

Subtraction is simply adddtion of a negative number.
Multiplication is simply repeated addition.
Division is repeated subtraction is repeated addition of a negative number.
Exponentiation is repeated multiplication is repeated addition.

Trig functions are not true operations, but functions.

 

[polyb]

ODEs are much easier than NLDEs, particularly second order ones. Bring out the programming skills for those.

As for the one true operation...

...this is probably wrong, but here is my guess and justification for:

Addition.

Subtraction is simply adddtion of a negative number.
Multiplication is simply repeated addition.
Division is repeated subtraction is repeated addition of a negative number.
Exponentiation is repeated multiplication is repeated addition.

Trig functions are not true operations, but functions.

YEEEAH! You should get a prize or a pretzel, just don't choke on it! As absurd as it sounds, I have not found anything to counter the claim! Strange isn't it, you spend all this time really just learning snazzy ways of adding things up!

You'll never find an exact solution to any NLDE, so you goto Euler's house or you call up that japanese pop band RK4. Plus as soon as you change the boundry conditions by an infinitesimal you get a completely different result. Now if you add noise though, some systems do tend to 'behave' more. The irony is that reality is a huge system of NLDE's and at best the ODEs are a first order apporixamtion of sorts!

 

[franznietzsche]

YEEEAH! You should get a prize or a pretzel, just don't choke on it! As absurd as it sounds, I have not found anything to counter the claim! Strange isn't it, you spend all this time really just learning snazzy ways of adding things up!

You'll never find an exact solution to any NLDE, so you goto Euler's house or you call up that japanese pop band RK4. Plus as soon as you change the boundry conditions by an infinitesimal you get a completely different result. Now if you add noise though, some systems do tend to 'behave' more. The irony is that reality is a huge system of NLDE's and at best the ODEs are a first order apporixamtion of sorts!

I just write a computer program to solve the NLDE's. Brute force runge-kutta algorithm. Inelegant, inefficient, but effective (i mean the way i tend to write code, not the runge-kutta algorithm itself. Well, actually i would consider it those things as well, now that i tihnk about it.)

 

[juvenal]

I didn't watch the second episode, but I talked to my Dad, who watched both. He thought the second was better than the first, and actually liked both of them. He does have a master's in applied math - but he's not exactly the first person I'd turn to if I wanted math questions answered. He didn't seem to be bothered by the chalkboards in the garage or minesweeper either. He also thought the first one was too heavy on the math stuff.

 

[Curious3141]

YEEEAH! You should get a prize or a pretzel, just don't choke on it! As absurd as it sounds, I have not found anything to counter the claim! Strange isn't it, you spend all this time really just learning snazzy ways of adding things up!

You'll never find an exact solution to any NLDE, so you goto Euler's house or you call up that japanese pop band RK4. Plus as soon as you change the boundry conditions by an infinitesimal you get a completely different result. Now if you add noise though, some systems do tend to 'behave' more. The irony is that reality is a huge system of NLDE's and at best the ODEs are a first order apporixamtion of sorts!

You could just as easily say the only "true" operation in math is the union set. Addition is based on the union set operation.

 

[franznietzsche]

You'll never find an exact solution to any NLDE, so you goto Euler's house or you call up that japanese pop band RK4. Plus as soon as you change the boundry conditions by an infinitesimal you get a completely different result.

I just got that, as i reread the quote in curious' post. I am ashamed. I would blame lack of sleep but there is no excuse really. And let's just say that doing iterations every 1/100000th of a second (using that as your stepsize i mean) really ups the accuracy.

 

[Zorodius]

You're too literal. You can certainly use an example, say, poking a beehive and the consequences thereof, as an analogy of Newton's third law.

You can, I guess, but it doesn't convey any accurate or meaningful information to do so.

 

[franznietzsche]

You can, I guess, but it doesn't convey any accurate or meaningful information to do so.

My point exactly.

 

[tribdog]

I'm working on an equation that shows how mentioning HUP to Franznietzche causes his BP to increase. I call it FIP,the Franznietzche Insanity Principle.

 

[Moonbear]

I'm working on an equation that shows how mentioning HUP to Franznietzche causes his BP to increase. I call it FIP,the Franznietzche Insanity Principle.

*Looks over tribdog's shoulder* Wait, that's an inverse proportion there...that variable for accuracy of HUP explanation is inversely related to Franz's BP.

 

[Icebreaker]

My point exactly.

The viewers of Numb3rs aren't expected to pass as PhD's.

 

[tribdog]

*Looks over tribdog's shoulder* Wait, that's an inverse proportion there...that variable for accuracy of HUP explanation is inversely related to Franz's BP.

thanks hun, but what do I do about the calming influences of the ODEs and NLDEs? and look what happens when you throw in a bad analogy.

 

[Moonbear]

thanks hun, but what do I do about the calming influences of the ODEs and NLDEs? and look what happens when you throw in a bad analogy.

Not sure about the ODEs and NLDEs, but I think you need to integrate the analogy. It is the area under the curve that's important, right? How do we define the limits? There must be an upper bound that if exceeded, his head shoots off and explodes.

 

[tribdog]

Not sure about the ODEs and NLDEs, but I think you need to integrate the analogy. It is the area under the curve that's important, right? How do we define the limits? There must be an upper bound that if exceeded, his head shoots off and explodes.

I'd like to see that.
hmmmm
hey franz. isn't it true that the uncertainty principle proves that cats are never all the way dead, so it's illegal to bury them unless you cut two slits in the coffin?

 

[Moonbear]

I'd like to see that.
hmmmm
hey franz. isn't it true that the uncertainty principle proves that cats are never all the way dead, so it's illegal to bury them unless you cut two slits in the coffin?

I don't know, I thought our mangling of math would have had the desired effect. I guess we need to account for that inflection point in the equation. Once his head pops off, his BP will drop pretty quickly.

 

[tribdog]

all my attempt did was make his ears whistle anyway.

 

[Moonbear]

all my attempt did was make his ears whistle anyway.

*Writes in notebook: "Ears whistle."*

Hmm...very interesting phenomenon. Did you happen to record the frequency? Oh, nevermind, we'll just call it the FEWF constant (Franz's Ear Whistling Frequency)...give it a cool symbol, okay? I think that goes over there, and then take the square root.

 

[tribdog]

look how his eyes bulge when you put his fingers in his ears. Whoa, don't do that anymore. Phew, air finds a route out even if it needs to head south to do so. someone open a window.

 

[Moonbear]

look how his eyes bulge when you put his fingers in his ears. Whoa, don't do that anymore. Phew, air finds a route out even if it needs to head south to do so. someone open a window.

Okay, obviously taking the square root was wrong. Just every cool equation has a square root in it somewhere. Let's find something else to take the square root of.

 

[tribdog]

maybe we need two square roots, that way the negative(southern) route becomes a positive. i's look pretty in the equations too.

 

[Moonbear]

maybe we need two square roots, that way the negative(southern) route becomes a positive. i's look pretty in the equations too.

Ooh, yes, I like the look of the i's. Now throw in a psi, a theta, a rho, and a few sigmas for good measure.

Wait! Stop! Don't write that one down, that'll give away next week's plot and completely ruin the show for Franz.

 

[tribdog]

I don't know how to draw a rho.

 

[Moonbear]

I don't know how to draw a rho.

It's the one that looks like a funny p. Oh, never mind, just draw an oar; we can rho with that.

Franz, are you catching all this? CBS hired us as script writers for next week and we want to have a realistic equation this time.

 

[tribdog]

a squared plus b squared equals pi right?

 

[tribdog]

If I'm not sure how do draw a rho is it because of Heisenberg?

 

[Moonbear]

If I'm not sure how do draw a rho is it because of Heisenberg?

Yep, sounds like uncertainty to me. How about a rhino instead of a rho? That could make this really interesting. We need a twist in this plot somewhere. (Ba dum bum <<<<<groan>>>>>)

 

[tribdog]

I think the hardest thing about Mathmatical equations is making sure they rhyme.