Omaha Shootings: Selfish Act of a Bastard

[Moonbear]

I get the impression there has simply been a shift in the type of violence perpetrated by disturbed individuals over the years. When I was a kid/teen, we didn't hear much about mass murders like this, it was a really rare thing, but instead, it seemed there was a story about once a year about a serial killer. You'd get one serial killer, then a series of copycats. Now, you get one mall shooter, then a series of copycats. At least with things like mall shootings, the murderer doesn't usually escape to do it again...if they don't shoot themselves, they often get shot by the cops when they arrive. With serial killers, they stealthily act and escape arrest for a long time, and can have just as many victims as the mass murderers...and they don't necessarily just shoot their victims, but can torture them first, and kill them by slower, more painful means.

I really don't think gun bans would stop an incident like this. It might change the method, but it won't remove that violent tendency from the individual. Discussion of gun bans and the deaths it can prevent usually revolve more around accidental shootings (a kid finds dad's gun and shoots another kid) or crimes of passion (a couple gets into a fight, or discovers one cheating on the other, and one grabs a gun in the heat of that fight). Those who keep their guns within quick reach out of fear of an intruder entering their home are also the ones whose kids are most likely to find those guns. It's the mentality of not locking up the gun that makes it dangerous, not just the fact of having the gun in the home. Same with crimes of passion...having the gun readily accessible is the problem, not the actual ownership. On the other hand, with crimes of passion, if the gun wasn't accessible, it probably would be a butcher knife, golf club, or whatever else is the first thing within reach. All of those can be deadly.

 

[Huckleberry]

I don't think gun bans would stop this sort of thing from happening either. These are normally planned events, not spontaneous crimes of passion. A gun ban might make a firearm difficult and hazardous to obtain, but not impossible. I doubt that any would-be mass killer would transform into an content citizen because of a little difficulty. In almost every case of mass murder that I've heard about the individual feels a life-long resentment towards society for some perceived wrong.

Every time something like this happens people start talking about gun bans, which I find a bit frustrating because I don't think firearms are the root of the problem. Just yesterday I was watching the Today Show and there was one woman (I forget what group she was representing) who was on a tirade to disparage the killer. She used words like loser, failure, psychotic, and evil in her descriptions of him. Perhaps those things are true, but she said them vehemently with the intent to disparage him and others like him, which I think misses the point completely.

It's not the killers that are snapping. They were broken a long time ago probably due to some terrible abuse or neglect that nobody was willing to help them with earlier in life. Their minds are full of shame and fear and powerlessness, yet they have done nothing to deserve it. Seeking help means trusting someone enough to reveal how hideous they appear to themselves, and they've never had any reason to trust anyone before. Why should now be any different? Society seems like a heartless, unsympathetic place to live, where the life of one unfortunate person means nothing.

Let that sentiment stir unresolved for a few decades...

Guy decides he's going to give society what it deserves. He's going to exact justice, judge, jury and executioner style on a group of people as helpless as he was. He's going to balance the scales and cause as much pain and grief and anger as he felt for so many years. He's going to get the recognition and respect that is rightfully his. What wasn't given to him, he decides to take by force with as much sympathy as was dealt to him. His last act in this world will be finding freedom in bloody vengeance.

So when I see people hatefully bashing these killers I think they are making a huge mistake. We react angrily out of fear and perpetuate the same feelings in other would-be killers that society cannot be trusted. We pass our judgement without sympathy or regard to the cause. Then in a total disregard for a human life we decide that guns are responsible.

I think the solution to reducing this type of behavior is to recognize it before it advances. Most importantly we must be sympathetic to it. For a moment we need to stop thinking about ourselves and be open to consideration of how others are affected by our actions or lack thereof. In order to retain our own freedom we must be respectful of the freedom of others. We can't turn a blind eye to the unjust suffering of the innocent and then claim no responsibility when they seek to claim their debt. I believe that just the belief that people are trying to seek and render aid to the abused and neglected would be very helpful to them. The problem I see is convincing them in the sincerity and genuine compassion of society. Otherwise any attempt to help would simply be viewed as a way to root out a disease and cut it away from the healthy area, like a cancer.

We must be more objective

 

[Evo]

I don't think gun bans would stop this sort of thing from happening either. These are normally planned events, not spontaneous crimes of passion. A gun ban might make a firearm difficult and hazardous to obtain, but not impossible. I doubt that any would-be mass killer would transform into an content citizen because of a little difficulty. In almost every case of mass murder that I've heard about the individual feels a life-long resentment towards society for some perceived wrong.

Every time something like this happens people start talking about gun bans, which I find a bit frustrating because I don't think firearms are the root of the problem. Just yesterday I was watching the Today Show and there was one woman (I forget what group she was representing) who was on a tirade to disparage the killer. She used words like loser, failure, psychotic, and evil in her descriptions of him. Perhaps those things are true, but she said them vehemently with the intent to disparage him and others like him, which I think misses the point completely.

It's not the killers that are snapping. They were broken a long time ago probably due to some terrible abuse or neglect that nobody was willing to help them with earlier in life. Their minds are full of shame and fear and powerlessness, yet they have done nothing to deserve it. Seeking help means trusting someone enough to reveal how hideous they appear to themselves, and they've never had any reason to trust anyone before. Why should now be any different? Society seems like a heartless, unsympathetic place to live, where the life of one unfortunate person means nothing.

Let that sentiment stir unresolved for a few decades...

Guy decides he's going to give society what it deserves. He's going to exact justice, judge, jury and executioner style on a group of people as helpless as he was. He's going to balance the scales and cause as much pain and grief and anger as he felt for so many years. He's going to get the recognition and respect that is rightfully his. What wasn't given to him, he decides to take by force with as much sympathy as was dealt to him. His last act in this world will be finding freedom in bloody vengeance.

So when I see people hatefully bashing these killers I think they are making a huge mistake. We react angrily out of fear and perpetuate the same feelings in other would-be killers that society cannot be trusted. We pass our judgement without sympathy or regard to the cause. Then in a total disregard for a human life we decide that guns are responsible.

I think the solution to reducing this type of behavior is to recognize it before it advances. Most importantly we must be sympathetic to it. For a moment we need to stop thinking about ourselves and be open to consideration of how others are affected by our actions or lack thereof. In order to retain our own freedom we must be respectful of the freedom of others. We can't turn a blind eye to the unjust suffering of the innocent and then claim no responsibility when they seek to claim their debt. I believe that just the belief that people are trying to seek and render aid to the abused and neglected would be very helpful to them. The problem I see is convincing them in the sincerity and genuine compassion of society. Otherwise any attempt to help would simply be viewed as a way to root out a disease and cut it away from the healthy area, like a cancer.

We must be more objective

After reading about this poor kid and the life he had, it's really sad that it ended this way. I agree with what you said.

 

[turbo]

On the other hand, with crimes of passion, if the gun wasn't accessible, it probably would be a butcher knife, golf club, or whatever else is the first thing within reach. All of those can be deadly.

If I wanted to kill somebody and reduce my chances of injury in the confrontation, the golf club would be my choice. You don't even have to smuggle one into a mall - just walk in, go the the sports shop and choose your weapon. Very quick, quiet, and effective.

 

[Huckleberry]

I consider it a tragedy in more ways than one, although I haven't really heard anything about this kids situation yet. I'm presuming there is an explanation for it in his personal history.

I've read that the frontal lobe doesn't fully develop often until late in a person's 20's. I'm not certain, but it seems like people under this age are more likely to be mass murderers, possibly due to poor brain development in some cases. I'm curious how frontal lobe development can be related to a child's upbringing. It would at least give something to measure.

Perhaps as they start getting older they start to realize they aren't the same as other people their own age. They feel denied any pleasure from life that they see others enjoying. Perhaps they even try to be normal, but never really feel accepted. Anyone they get close to might eventually perceive the powerful negative emotions under the surface. The only people they can be themselves around are people with similar emotions. They spend a lot of time alone. One day they decide that there is no hope of acceptance and no point of living life in rejection. Then they start planning their escape.

How common are incidents like these in eastern cultures, Japan particularly?

 

[turbo]

Every time something like this happens people start talking about gun bans, which I find a bit frustrating because I don't think firearms are the root of the problem. Just yesterday I was watching the Today Show and there was one woman (I forget what group she was representing) who was on a tirade to disparage the killer. She used words like loser, failure, psychotic, and evil in her descriptions of him. Perhaps those things are true, but she said them vehemently with the intent to disparage him and others like him, which I think misses the point completely.

The need to identify and treat people with severe disconnects from reality is great. It's not enough to treat someone for substance abuse and self-destructive behavior - those are symptoms, not the underlying problems. If treatment facilities modify the symptomatic behavior of a person like this without addressing the fundamental problems, and he is then released, he is a time bomb primed to revert to self-destructive behavior or to really cut loose and lash out at others.

Focusing on the method/weapon used by such an unbalanced person is inappropriate, and it absolves our social-services system of their failure to properly treat their patient, monitor his condition and transition him to supervised release so they could see if he was acclimating to life on the outside. This particular kid had been institutionalized for years during a time of his life that is critical for healthy development, socialization, and maturation.

 

[Wagon Master]

Cristo,

I am a gun owner (and a crack shot with a 9, I might add) and I have a different take than most folks. I don't see owning a gun as Constitutional issue so much as a natural one. Every cat has claws, every dog has fangs, every bear has claws and fangs, birds have beaks, etc. You see, every speices in nature has just about the same tools to attack and defend as every other of it's type. Some are bigger than other, some are faster, some are stronger, but they all possesses about the same tools.

I think that humans should have the same advantages. Our biggest "equalizer" has been our brains. Cats and dogs and monkeys don't build weapons, but we do. We should each have the right to the same tools as the person who would do us harm. Just like the animals. Natural law.

We should also be held more responsible for our actions and choices than we are.

 

[EnumaElish]

He was diagnosed and institutionalized as an adolescent or teenager.

Wondering about the amount & type of antidepressants (SSRIs?) he was prescribed/exposed to.

 

[Astronuc]

After reading about this poor kid and the life he had, it's really sad that it ended this way. I agree with what you said.

Evo succinctly reflects my thoughts in reference to Huck's post (#92).

Hawkins was a troubled teenager who spent four years in a series of treatment centers, group homes and foster care after threatening to kill his stepmother in 2002. He had recently broken up with a girlfriend and lost his job at a McDonald's.

"I've just snapped. I can't take this meaningless existence anymore I've been a constant disappointment and that trend would have only continued," he wrote in a suicide note left at the suburban house where he lived.

Teenage years are tumultous, but without good support (of a loving home, family or friends), some end up on a downward spiral.

The issue isn't one of banning guns, but rather how members of a society/family treat one another, and in some cases such as this, how mentally ill people can get proper treatment.

 

[Astronuc]

How common are incidents like these in eastern cultures, Japan particularly?

Apparently, similar events are on the rise in Japan. When I was in Tokyo about 10 years ago, there were two stories about alienated and troubled teens resorting to violence. In one case, a young man attacked (and IIRC killed) a teacher, and in another case, a young man killed a former girl friend (and killed or injured other students). In both cases, knives rather than guns were used.

Personally, I'm ambivalent about guns, or rather types of guns. I've fired pistols, rifles and shotguns. They do have legitimate uses, e.g. for hunting (for food - I detest shooting animals for trophies) or sport. On the other hand, there is a great capacity to do harm. Then again, any tool can be used as a weapon.

Ultimately it comes down to how we treat one another and how we teach respect (love, care, concern, . . . .) for others.

 

[Moonbear]

Teenage years are tumultous, but without good support (of a loving home, family or friends), some end up on a downward spiral.

The issue isn't one of banning guns, but rather how members of a society/family treat one another, and in some cases such as this, how mentally ill people can get proper treatment.

If he had threatened to kill someone in the past, and was institutionalized for treatment, he didn't "just snap." Knowing he had just broken up with a girlfriend and lost a job, his family should have been keeping a VERY close eye on him...those things can be tough enough for an otherwise well-adjusted teen to cope with if they happen back-to-back (or even could have been related), and for one with a history of serious mental illness, giant red flags should have been popping up everywhere!

 

[Astronuc]

If he had threatened to kill someone in the past, and was institutionalized for treatment, he didn't "just snap." Knowing he had just broken up with a girlfriend and lost a job, his family should have been keeping a VERY close eye on him...those things can be tough enough for an otherwise well-adjusted teen to cope with if they happen back-to-back (or even could have been related), and for one with a history of serious mental illness, giant red flags should have been popping up everywhere!

Apparently, his family through him out - discarded him. He was staying with another family.

Clearly there were red flags, but nobody dealt with it effectively, if at all.

He snapped in the sense, that before the event, he had not acted on the impulse to kill others. He clearly tipped over the edge.

Some/many teenagers have a nihilistic phase, but most don't act out and kill.

 

[Wagon Master]

It seems a couple of my comments to this thread have vanished. Any ideas?

 

[Moonbear]

It seems a couple of my comments to this thread have vanished. Any ideas?

The thread got off-topic, so to get things back on track, the sidetrack was deleted. No fault of yours.

 

[Holocene]

Banning guns is most certainly NOT the answer!

Every person should own and know how to properly use a gun! Just one man with a gun could have killed that crazy man before he killed another 7 or 8 people.

What if you find yourself in a situation where someone in breaking into your home? What are you going to do, call the cops? The cops will be en route and in the meantime you could be getting robbed, beaten, raped, and killed.

You cannot expect the police or your government to always be there for you. Your safety is YOUR responsibility.

Banning guns simply gives criminals a major advantage, because they will be the only ones who HAVE guns, and the means to harm you without the possibility of you defending yourself!

I honestly cannot even begin to fathom the mentality of people who want to ban guns.