On determining the -3dB point in an RLC circuit

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on determining the -3dB point in the response function of a notch filter represented by an RLC circuit. Participants explore the mathematical approach to find the frequency at which the filter's gain drops to -3dB, involving the transfer function and its magnitude.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the response function for a notch filter and seeks to find the frequency where the gain is -3dB, expressing uncertainty about the algebra involved.
  • Another participant suggests that the magnitude of the transfer function should be set to 1/√2 to find the -3dB point, indicating that multiple values of ω may yield this result.
  • A participant considers the possibility of obtaining imaginary numbers for ω and contemplates using a specific substitution related to the circuit's parameters.
  • Another participant notes that a quartic expression may arise from the calculations, which could be simplified to a quadratic form, and emphasizes the need for caution regarding the values used in the calculations.
  • One participant confirms that no actual component values are provided and that the task is to determine the ω for the -3dB points conceptually.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach of setting the magnitude of the transfer function to 1/√2 to find the -3dB points. However, there is no consensus on the specific values of ω or the implications of potential imaginary roots, indicating that multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the behavior of the notch filter and the mathematical expressions derived from it. There are unresolved steps in the algebraic manipulation and the implications of the roots found in the equations.

Emspak
Messages
240
Reaction score
1

Homework Statement


OK, I have the response function for a notch filter, and I want to find out what the frequency where it has the -3dB response.

Homework Equations


H(\omega) = \frac{1-\omega^2LC}{1-\omega^2LC+i\omega RC}

This is my response function. My \omega_0 = \frac{1}{\sqrt{LC}}

The Attempt at a Solution


OK, so I figure that what I am looking for is where 20\log_{10}(H(\omega)) = -3. This should be simple enough, but I am having some difficulty and I suspect I am messing up something stupid and obvious.

I am pretty sure that all I need is to have H(\omega) = \frac{1-\omega^2LC}{1-\omega^2LC+i\omega RC} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}. But it's getting there that's the problem and figuring out what my omega ought to be. I tried simply saying that the absolute value of my response function squared should be 1/2, and thereby getting rid of the imaginary component. This is kind of a silly algebra question I suppose, I feel like there is some ridiculously simple thing I am not seeing here.

Looking at it I need something where plugging in i \omega RC = i \frac{1}{\sqrt{LC}} RC yields a square root of 2, or plugging in R/L as my change in omega and multiplying things out, but I feel like I am missing something even simpler than that. Anyhow, any help is appreciated.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You were on the right track before. It's the magnitude of the transfer function that you want to set to ##1/\sqrt{2}##. So first you'll need to deal with obtaining the magnitude expression.

If it's a notch filter you should expect to find more than one value of ##\omega## that yields a -3 dB gain.
 
OK, and it should be no problem if I get imaginary numbers for omega, though I am still having a little trouble solving the expression. My instinct is to plug in omega +/- R/L and see what that gets me. Is that the right Idea? (delta-omega is R/L IIRC)
 
I think you you find two real roots to the resulting expression (a notch has two sides after all). There may be another pair of imaginary roots that can be ignored. Were you given actual values for the components?

You'll probably find a quartic expression with ##\omega^4## and ##\omega^2## terms. A substitution will make that a quadratic.

Unless you know something in particular about the notch filter in question, plugging in likely values based on combinations of components is unlikely to be fruitful.
 
no actual values, i think we're just supposed to say what the omega is for the -3dB spots.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K