News Open and Concealed Carry: Firearms

[Aknazer]

MA... Springfield wasn't willing (and rightly so) to jump through every meaningless beaurocratic hoops, so they can't sell here. I should say though, you can buy and own them, but not register them for carry.

Absurd... I know.

Wow that's pretty stupid. I know that a lot of companies have said that if NY and a few other places pass a law that requires microstamping that they will simply quit selling in those states due to the cost to micro stamp (new equipment and it's proprietary so they would have to license it as well).

I have to say, I'm a quick draw with CC, faster than I am with OC which I don't practice or do. That said, given practice it's pretty clear that OC would be faster. For me, the trade is in favor of CC, but I'm not sure that gun-grabs are the biggest worry. I prefer to remain below the radar, and if that makes me more of a target, so be it.

I also enjoy the ability to have a confrontation that can be de-escalated... hard to do with a gun open on your hip.

The below the radar and not having my gun be a potential issue in a confrontation would be my biggest reasons to CC instead of OC (if I had the option, since in OK it's currently illegal to OC). Though if I had the choice I would likely OC most of the time; partially because of the comfort factor and that my wife likes to buy shirts that "fit" which doesn't leave a lot of room to conceal a handgun without it printing on the shirt or showing when I move my arms.

 

[nismaratwork]

Wow that's pretty stupid. I know that a lot of companies have said that if NY and a few other places pass a law that requires microstamping that they will simply quit selling in those states due to the cost to micro stamp (new equipment and it's proprietary so they would have to license it as well).

Yep, it's so stupid it's a real issue in the state. Needless to say its galling to have one of the most respected armories being shut-out.

The below the radar and not having my gun be a potential issue in a confrontation would be my biggest reasons to CC instead of OC (if I had the option, since in OK it's currently illegal to OC). Though if I had the choice I would likely OC most of the time; partially because of the comfort factor and that my wife likes to buy shirts that "fit" which doesn't leave a lot of room to conceal a handgun without it printing on the shirt or showing when I move my arms.

Hmmmm... well fashion is a consideration (not sarcastic) or you just have a harder-to-access OC. I think I would still tend to CC, but go with an accessory, and my P229... that sucker can HIDE.

Another element is, to be blunt, perception... in MA OC is illegal, but even in states where it is, some people are afraid. I may have the legal right, but I choose not to exercise it, finding a comfortable balance for me between security and social interaction. I understand the other position of course; ths is a personal choce, and a matter of taste and comfort.

 

[Aknazer]

More than just fashion, it's also about not having to buy all new clothes to be able to properly CC (since if someone notices the printing I can actually get in trouble as it has to be undetectable). I made the mistake of buying the gun I wanted rather than buying a gun that works with what I need it for (I got blindsided by a pretty gun and simply wasn't thinking), and now I have to either change my wardrobe or get a smaller gun thanks to my shirts not being long/baggy enough to propery conceal the weapon.

And I agree with what you say about perception and comfort. I think the most important thing when it comes to carrying is your comfort level. It doesn't matter how much "better" one option is if you're not comfortable with that type of carrying it's not the right type for you. I would say kudos to you for wanting to be able to protect yourself, but also knowing your own comfort level and not trying to do something you're not comfortable with.

 

[nismaratwork]

More than just fashion, it's also about not having to buy all new clothes to be able to properly CC (since if someone notices the printing I can actually get in trouble as it has to be undetectable). I made the mistake of buying the gun I wanted rather than buying a gun that works with what I need it for (I got blindsided by a pretty gun and simply wasn't thinking), and now I have to either change my wardrobe or get a smaller gun thanks to my shirts not being long/baggy enough to propery conceal the weapon.

And I agree with what you say about perception and comfort. I think the most important thing when it comes to carrying is your comfort level. It doesn't matter how much "better" one option is if you're not comfortable with that type of carrying it's not the right type for you. I would say kudos to you for wanting to be able to protect yourself, but also knowing your own comfort level and not trying to do something you're not comfortable with.

I agree, and hey, you can always snag another gun, although I admit that seriously compact can be a real downer from the aestethic angle. After all, you probably target shoot more than anything else... who wants to practice with a saturday night special?

Preference and comfort... I agree that it's the main goal along with simple utility.

 

[turbo]

Sig Saur makes some pretty nice concealed-carry guns, including the P238. Still, I'd gravitate to the Walther line, probably. No need though. I have a Glock model 20. It's big and heavy for CC, but there's no real need for concealment, IMO. I have considered getting a CC permit for one reason: if I want to carry a pistol for a kill-shot while deer-hunting, I'd rather have it holstered under my jacket, protected from weather and moisture. I hunt with a large-caliber single-shot rifle, and have never needed a second shot, so I haven't sprung for the CC permit.

My sister is divorced and living alone, and she has worked with kids who have been legally removed from troubled families, and moonlights as a bar-tender. Either of those jobs could earn her the enmity of some disaffected person. She has a CC permit, so she feels a bit safer when taking her early-morning walks. Watch out! Sis is packing.

 

[Aknazer]

I agree, and hey, you can always snag another gun, although I admit that seriously compact can be a real downer from the aestethic angle. After all, you probably target shoot more than anything else... who wants to practice with a saturday night special?

Preference and comfort... I agree that it's the main goal along with simple utility.

I got an XDm-40 and my wife got an XD9-SC. Ironically her gun is also too big for her, so I'll likely end up carrying it and she's looking at getting a Luger LPC 380. Though I hope an IWB holster will allow the XDm to be carried on occasion, but as a lefty I had to order one (store only had right hand holsters) and it hasn't arrived yet so I can't test it. I don't think the SC looks too bad (though plenty of guys would say it's a "girl" gun; though not much I can do about having a smaller frame), but I put 100 rounds through it yesterday and it is a bit annoying using the smaller clip as my pinky doesn't have space on the grip and instead has to be up under the clip. Luckily it's reliable and should I ever need it the minor discomfort from the pinky is more than fine to be able defend myself.

 

[nismaratwork]

Turbo... a Glock? I pictured you as a S&W, or Springfield man... don't ask me why though.

@Aknazer: I made that mistake with a Beretta 92... nice for target shooting, but it's very barrel-heavy and LARGE. Beretta makes a VERY nice line of low-medium caliber concealed-carry models however... cougar... or... some big-cat, I forget which.

 

[turbo]

Turbo... a Glock? I pictured you as a S&W, or Springfield man... don't ask me why though.

Yep. I was ready to spring for a typical M 1911. As it happened, I was liquidating a collection of antique Winchester rifles and carbines, and a fellow showed up with the Glock M20. It was unfired, in a case with original accessories including 3 magazines and a loading tool. Plus the 10mm Auto is like a .45 ACP on steroids. The guy offered to trade me that kit for an antique Winchester rifle .38-55 with a short magazine. I paid $300 for that rifle because the finish was a bit thin and rough, though the bore was like a mirror (rare in the age of black-powder cartridges!). I couldn't possibly turn that down.

Our law-enforcement agencies initially expected to standardize on the 10mm Auto (specifically the Glock M20), but too many officers failed to qualify with those guns because of the recoil. I have small hands, but I am a dedicated shooter, and I like the fact that the geometry of the Glock let's me easily absorb the recoil with very little loss of sight-picture. If you are a tyro, and think you're going to shoot this pistol without proper flex in your elbows, you'll beat yourself up and have a hard time hitting the side of the barn.

My wife likes pistol shooting, and she likes shooting a friend's M 1911 (.45 ACP), as well as the various 9mms that we take to the pit, but one shot with the Glock M 20 was plenty for her. Back to the Walther.

 

[Alfi]

This gun that gun ,,,
It comes down to me as , ...I need a gun.

I'm curious as to why someone thinks they need a gun in the first place.

Your world must be way more dangerous than my world. I don't need a gun in my world.

Concealed or open... I just don't need one.

 

[turbo]

This gun that gun ,,,
It comes down to me as , ...I need a gun.

I'm curious as to why someone thinks they need a gun in the first place.

Your world must be way more dangerous than my world. I don't need a gun in my world.

Concealed or open... I just don't need one.

My wife and I live in a rural area at least 20 minutes from the nearest responder after a 911 call. I don't need to carry guns, especially concealed, but I will maintain the capabilities to defend my home. Every poor area has an underclass of creeps willing to cheat, steal, rob, or kill in order to come up with drugs or money to buy drugs. Home invasions are not numerous here, but they crop up with shocking regularity, and there is no time for cops to respond when it happens.

The best insurance that non-gun-owners have out here in the boonies is that the creeps don't know that they don't have guns, because most of us do.

 

[Aknazer]

Turbo... a Glock? I pictured you as a S&W, or Springfield man... don't ask me why though.

@Aknazer: I made that mistake with a Beretta 92... nice for target shooting, but it's very barrel-heavy and LARGE. Beretta makes a VERY nice line of low-medium caliber concealed-carry models however... cougar... or... some big-cat, I forget which.

Ahh the Beretta 92. That was the first pistol I had ever shot as that's the military standard issue. It's a nice gun but yea I can see the issue with trying to CC that thing. And by the looks of it Beretta has several cat named guns, but the cougar appears to be the compact 9mm version of the 92. If I do end up getting a different one instead of using my wife's ill be sure to give that one a look.

This gun that gun ,,,
It comes down to me as , ...I need a gun.

I'm curious as to why someone thinks they need a gun in the first place.

Your world must be way more dangerous than my world. I don't need a gun in my world.

Concealed or open... I just don't need one.

I'm just curious, but what world do you live in where people aren't robbed, raped, stabbed, shot, murdered, etc by criminals? The point of having a gun is to be able to protect yourself "if" the need arises rather than playing a statistics game and hoping it doesn't happen to you. Just look at the various small towns where crime "never" happens, only to then be rocked by some type of crime spree. I'll leave you with a few quotes I've heard.

"I need a gun 0% of the time, right up until I 100% need it"

"When seconds matter the cops are minutes away."

 

[nismaratwork]

Yep. I was ready to spring for a typical M 1911. As it happened, I was liquidating a collection of antique Winchester rifles and carbines, and a fellow showed up with the Glock M20. It was unfired, in a case with original accessories including 3 magazines and a loading tool. Plus the 10mm Auto is like a .45 ACP on steroids. The guy offered to trade me that kit for an antique Winchester rifle .38-55 with a short magazine. I paid $300 for that rifle because the finish was a bit thin and rough, though the bore was like a mirror (rare in the age of black-powder cartridges!). I couldn't possibly turn that down.

Our law-enforcement agencies initially expected to standardize on the 10mm Auto (specifically the Glock M20), but too many officers failed to qualify with those guns because of the recoil. I have small hands, but I am a dedicated shooter, and I like the fact that the geometry of the Glock let's me easily absorb the recoil with very little loss of sight-picture. If you are a tyro, and think you're going to shoot this pistol without proper flex in your elbows, you'll beat yourself up and have a hard time hitting the side of the barn.

My wife likes pistol shooting, and she likes shooting a friend's M 1911 (.45 ACP), as well as the various 9mms that we take to the pit, but one shot with the Glock M 20 was plenty for her. Back to the Walther.

Gotcha, although I really loathe the 10mm... it's just begging for overpenetration. A .45 mushrooms far more, and dumps its energy into the target with less chance of hitting someone else. I can see why you sprang for the Glock, I would have done the same, but I would have giggled at the time.

@Alfi: We all live in the same world, and it's just a matter of how an individual chooses in advance to deal with even low risks. You wear a seatbelt, a helmet when biking, and a gun is not very different. It's only when the image of some cowboy gunman is raised that it becomes sinister... that in my experience is a rarity, that ends in a felony conviction.

@Aknazer: I've fired the cougar .357 sig and .45 ACP... it's an impressive gun, only downside being that they are expeeeennnnssiiiive! M92FS is the military model, and the one I own... still as you say it's not CC'able in any reasonable way. It's fantastic in terms of accuracy at the range, and so I use it for fun, cheap target practice with something less than comfortable in my hands. I don't every use it for SD, so I just buy some nice 9mm and don't worry to much about the cost.

When it comes to the my Sig's... I want to generally practice with what I'd use for SD/HD, with the occasional splurge on a box of match ammo to test its limits. I am above all, a target shooter, which is why I got into guns at all. Once there however, the advantages for SD/HD were obvious.

I don't expect to have to use this in self defense, but having those skills and a weapon that I'd own anyway for target shooting just makes sense. Over time, life has shown the other side, which is that you never really do know what's around the corner. Usually it's just people, but sometimes... well, bad things happen.

 

[Alfi]

I'm just curious, but what world do you live in where people aren't robbed, raped, stabbed, shot, murdered, etc by criminals? ."

I live in Toronto, Canada. I have never been robbed, raped, stabbed, shot or murdered, ect.
... by anyone.. but if they did those things, yes, I would call them criminals.

This whole question about carry concealed or otherwise, is foreign to me. I just don't see the need to arm myself at all. I have insurance to replace objects, I have no wish to kill another human to protect any object I own.

It's a fear thing. I guess I just don't live with the same fear factor.

It's interesting to read and all, but I just don't understand.

 

[turbo]

Gotcha, although I really loathe the 10mm... it's just begging for overpenetration. A .45 mushrooms far more, and dumps its energy into the target with less chance of hitting someone else. I can see why you sprang for the Glock, I would have done the same, but I would have giggled at the time.

Hollow-points with heavily-grooved cladding. There won't be any over-penetration.

 

[turbo]

BTW, if I should ever have to pick up a back-up (a couple of my closest friends were the chief of police for the county seat, and the chief of the state's warden service, and they had off-duty carry guns), I would probably pick up a Walther PPK in 9mm. Small, light, slim, and backed up by many decades of faithful service. Unless you are a lingerie model or an exhibitionist, you can find a way to carry that.

 

[nismaratwork]

Hollow-points with heavily-grooved cladding. There won't be any over-penetration.

If you were a woman...

@Alfi: GOOD! I hope you never experience those, relatively rare in a large population, crimes. The question is do you choose to carry insurance for your life, even though in all likelihood the skills and weapon will never be used? I'd say yes, but I see little risk in gun ownership by responsible and trained individuals. Your own country has more rifles than a sane person would need to hunt all of the game in the north!

Still, if you're going to draw, then hesitate, you're better off without a gun. There is nothing wrong with your stance, only in failing to recognize it. Some people would rather die than kill, and while I disagree, it's not my choice.

One thing I'd correct: I personally don't live in fear, except of my ultimate end. In other words, I'm afraid of dying, but not of any particular death or a fear of imminent death or harm. I have however, had a wide range of experiences both personal and secondhand which tip me in favor of carrying a gun. I consider it insurance, but I'm also a "shooter" in the figurative and literal sense, I have the typical (responsible) gun-owner's obsession about safety, and I've enjoyed target shooting.

I don't, and never have hunted or shot an animall... to do so would take something out of me that I'm not sure I can spare. For better or worse, a person trying to harm me or one I care for doesn't receive the same consideration. I will say that if someone is robbing me, I use my judgment; it's not instantly the gunfight at the OK corral. If they have a gun, well, unless they look like they're about to use it, they've won. If they have a blade they're going to be shot, and if they're unarmed then I'm going to give up my wallet, keys, etc.

So, I consider the possibilities, but it's not living in fear anymore than having airbags in your car is living in fear. I recognize a small, but very real possibility and prepare for it, that's all.

 

[Aknazer]

I live in Toronto, Canada. I have never been robbed, raped, stabbed, shot or murdered, ect.
... by anyone.. but if they did those things, yes, I would call them criminals.

This whole question about carry concealed or otherwise, is foreign to me. I just don't see the need to arm myself at all. I have insurance to replace objects, I have no wish to kill another human to protect any object I own.

It's a fear thing. I guess I just don't live with the same fear factor.

It's interesting to read and all, but I just don't understand.

For me it's not about "fear" it's about being prepared. I know that myself and my family could easily go our entire lives without ever being the victims of a crime, but yet I don't see why I shouldn't prepare myself for the possibility of crime just as how people prepare theirselves for things like car accidents (auto insurance) or natural disasters (home/renter's insurance, food supplies, etc) among other things. The gun means that I'm safer "if" something happens even though so far in my life I've never felt like I've been in a situation where it was needed (just as how I have renter's insurance and have never needed it). If I never need it that's fine too, I'll continue to go on about my life without even really thinking about it.

Now you being in Toronto means that you're safer than a lot of people (per wikipedia the 2007 homocide rate was 3.3 per 100k and the robbery rate was 207.1 per 100k), but still that doesn't mean crime there doesn't happen. And had any of those ~83 murdered people had a weapon they might be here today.

EDIT: I see Nismara already beat me to it about insurance. Kinda interesting that he used the exact same analogy that I was typing.

And Turbo, if I were to ever carry a BUG (back up gun, for those that don't know) I would most likely look at something like that. I've seen a few at the Base Exchange here and they are incredibly small. Good to know that it comes highly recommended.

 

[nismaratwork]

BTW, if I should ever have to pick up a back-up (a couple of my closest friends were the chief of police for the county seat, and the chief of the state's warden service, and they had off-duty carry guns), I would probably pick up a Walther PPK in 9mm. Small, light, slim, and backed up by many decades of faithful service. Unless you are a lingerie model or an exhibitionist, you can find a way to carry that.

I knew a woman who concealed a PPK at the nape of her neck under her hair when she was out at night. Not the most stable person I've ever met, but it does prove that you can carry naked...

 

[Aknazer]

I knew a woman who concealed a PPK at the nape of her neck under her hair when she was out at night. Not the most stable person I've ever met, but it does prove that you can carry naked...

That brings to mind a rather interesting visualization to mind.

 

[nismaratwork]

That brings to mind a rather interesting visualization to mind.

It did for me...