Open Balls in a Normed Vector Space .... Carothers, Exercise 32

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Exercise 32 from N. L. Carothers' book "Real Analysis," specifically focusing on the concept of open balls in a normed vector space. Participants are exploring the definitions and properties of open balls, as well as the relationships between them in the context of normed spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter seeks clarification on the formal progression from the definition of open balls to the inclusion relationships between them.
  • One participant argues that if \( y \in B_r(x) \), then \( y \) can be expressed as \( y = x + z \) where \( z \in B_r(0) \), leading to the conclusion that \( B_r(x) \subseteq x + B_r(0) \).
  • Another participant confirms the reasoning and emphasizes the need to justify the interpretation of \( y = x + z \in x + B_r(0) \) based on the axioms of a normed vector space.
  • Peter questions the justification of the reverse argument and attempts to clarify his understanding of the implications of \( y \in x + B_r(0) \).
  • Participants discuss the conditions under which the reverse inclusion \( x + B_r(0) \subseteq B_r(x) \) holds, with emphasis on starting from an element \( z \in B_r(0) \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants are engaged in a detailed exploration of the relationships between open balls, with some agreement on the reasoning presented but also ongoing questions and clarifications regarding the justification of certain statements. The discussion remains unresolved as participants continue to refine their understanding.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the interpretation of certain statements based solely on the axioms of a normed vector space and the basics of set theory. There are also discussions about the definitions provided by Carothers, which may influence the understanding of the exercise.

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I am reading N. L. Carothers' book: "Real Analysis". ... ...

I am focused on Chapter 3: Metrics and Norms ... ...

I need help Exercise 32 on page 46 ... ... Exercise 32 reads as follows:

View attachment 9201
I have not been able to make much progress ...

We have ...$$B_r(x) = \{ y \in M \ : \ d(x, y) \lt r \}$$

... and ...

$$B_r(0) = \{ y \in M \ : \ d(0, y) \lt r \}$$... and ...$$x + B_r(0) = x + \{ y \in M \ : \ d(0, y) \lt r \}$$But ... how do we formally proceed from here ...
Hope that someone can help ...

Peter===================================================================================

The above post refers to/involves the notion of an open ball ... so I am providing Carothers' definition of the same ... as follows:
View attachment 9202
The above post also refers to/involves the notion of a normed vector space ... so I am providing Carothers' definition of the same ... as follows:
View attachment 9203
View attachment 9204Hope that helps ...

Peter
 

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Given $x,y\in V$, let $z = y-x$. Then $$y \in B_r(x) \Longrightarrow \|y-x\|<r \Longrightarrow \|z\|<r \Longrightarrow z\in B_r(0) \Longrightarrow y = x+z \in x + B_r(0).$$ Therefore $B_r(x) \subseteq x + B_r(0)$. That argument also works in the opposite direction, giving the reverse inclusion in the same way.
 
Opalg said:
Given $x,y\in V$, let $z = y-x$. Then $$y \in B_r(x) \Longrightarrow \|y-x\|<r \Longrightarrow \|z\|<r \Longrightarrow z\in B_r(0) \Longrightarrow y = x+z \in x + B_r(0).$$ Therefore $B_r(x) \subseteq x + B_r(0)$. That argument also works in the opposite direction, giving the reverse inclusion in the same way.
Hi Opalg ...

Thanks for the help ...

... but ... just a clarification ...

You write:

" ... ... $$z\in B_r(0) \Longrightarrow y = x+z \in x + B_r(0)$$ ... ... "I am somewhat perplexed as to how we justify (or even interpret ...) the above statement ... how do you justify it based solely on the axioms of a normed vector space and the basics of set theory ... indeed ... what does the statement ... ... $$y = x+z \in x + B_r(0)$$ ... ... mean exactly ...
My thoughts are as follows ...

$$y = x + z$$

$$\Longrightarrow y = x \ + $$ ... a particular element of the set $$B_r(0)$$

$$\Longrightarrow$$ ... (means ... ) ... $$y \in x + B_r(0)$$Is that correct ... am I interpreting things correctly ...?

Regarding the reverse argument ... my thoughts are as follows:

$$y \in x + B_r(0)$$

$$\Longrightarrow y = x + z $$ where $$z \in B_r(0)$$

$$\Longrightarrow y - x = z$$ where $$z \in B_r(0)$$But $$\| z \| \lt r$$

$$\Longrightarrow \| y - x \| \lt r$$

$$\Longrightarrow y \in B_x(r)$$ Is that correct?Hope you can help further ...

Peter
 
Last edited:
Peter said:
You write:

" ... ... $$z\in B_r(0) \Longrightarrow y = x+z \in x + B_r(0)$$ ... ... "I am somewhat perplexed as to how we justify (or even interpret ...) the above statement ... how do you justify it based solely on the axioms of a normed vector space and the basics of set theory ... indeed ... what does the statement ... ... $$y = x+z \in x + B_r(0)$$ ... ... mean exactly ...
My thoughts are as follows ...

$$y = x + z$$

$$\Longrightarrow y = x \ + $$ ... a particular element of the set $$B_r(0)$$

$$\Longrightarrow$$ ... (means ... ) ... $$y \in x + B_r(0)$$Is that correct ... am I interpreting things correctly ...?
That is correct. In fact, in the statement of Exercise 32, Carothers defines $x+B_r(0)$ to mean $\{x+y:\|y\|<r\}$:
View attachment 9205

Peter said:
Regarding the reverse argument ... my thoughts are as follows:

$$y \in x + B_r(0)$$

$$\Longrightarrow y = x + z $$ where $$z \in B_r(0)$$

$$\Longrightarrow y - x = z$$ where $$z \in B_r(0)$$But $$\| z \| \lt r$$

$$\Longrightarrow \| y - x \| \lt r$$

$$\Longrightarrow y \in B_x(r)$$ Is that correct?
For the reverse inclusion $x+B_r(0) \subseteq B_r(x)$, you need to start with an element $z\in B_r(0)$. Then $$z\in B_r(0) \Longrightarrow \|z\|<r \Longrightarrow \|x-(x+z)\|<r \Longrightarrow x+z\in B_r(x).$$
 

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Opalg said:
That is correct. In fact, in the statement of Exercise 32, Carothers defines $x+B_r(0)$ to mean $\{x+y:\|y\|<r\}$:
For the reverse inclusion $x+B_r(0) \subseteq B_r(x)$, you need to start with an element $z\in B_r(0)$. Then $$z\in B_r(0) \Longrightarrow \|z\|<r \Longrightarrow \|x-(x+z)\|<r \Longrightarrow x+z\in B_r(x).$$
Thanks Opalg ...

Still thinking over the reverse inclusion proof ...

Peter
 

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