Opening this jar is made easier by cooling or heating?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the effects of heating and cooling on a wooden lid of a jar, specifically regarding which method makes it easier to remove the lid. Participants explore the implications of thermal expansion and contraction of different materials, including glass and wood, in the context of a practical problem.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that heating the jar causes it to expand more than the wooden lid, potentially making it easier to remove.
  • Others contend that cooling the jar would allow it to contract more than the lid, thus making the lid easier to remove.
  • There is a question regarding the coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE) of wood compared to glass, with some participants seeking clarification on how this affects expansion and contraction.
  • One participant notes that the contact surface or thread configuration is crucial, suggesting that either the lid or the jar must expand or contract to facilitate removal.
  • A later reply introduces the complexity of wood's CTE varying with grain direction, implying that real-world outcomes may differ from theoretical expectations.
  • Another participant mentions a product designed to assist in opening jars without the need for heating, adding a practical solution to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether heating or cooling is more effective for loosening the lid, with no consensus reached on the best approach. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of thermal expansion in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of the specific materials involved and their thermal properties, as well as the configuration of the jar and lid, which may affect the outcome. There is also mention of the variability in wood's thermal expansion depending on grain direction, which adds complexity to the discussion.

robertphy
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I've found this question online and don't agree with the explanation given.
There’s a tight lid on a jar that you need to get loose.
The lid on this jar is made of wood and is supposed to unscrew from the jar — if only it wasn't stuck. The coefficient of thermal expansion of the glass jar is higher than that of the wood lid.
How can you make the lid easier to remove?

Explanation
If you heat the lid and the jar, then the jar will expand more than the lid does — which would make the lid of the jar even tighter and more difficult to open.

If you cool the lid and the jar, then the jar will contract more than the lid does, leaving the lid relatively large compared to the jar and easier to remove.

I disagree. If you heat the jar, the diameter of the top opening increases more than the diameter of the wooden lid, making it looser. The opposite happen if you cool the jar and the lid.
Can you please clarify what's happening, in your opinion?
Thank you
 
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robertphy said:
I disagree. If you heat the jar, the diameter of the top opening increases more than the diameter of the wooden lid, making it looser. The opposite happen if you cool the jar and the lid.
Why would the wood expand more than the glass if its CTE is less than that of glass?
robertphy said:
Can you please clarify what's happening, in your opinion?
Thank you
The CTE of the glass is greater than that of glass, so it should expand more on heating and contract more on cooling.
 
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Which one has the female contact surface or thread?
That one has to expand, or the other one has to contract.
 
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Lnewqban said:
Which one has the female contact surface or thread?
That one has to expand, or the other one has to contract.
Looks like the devil's in the details.
A cork in a bottle is similar in line to the OP reasoning.
 
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PeroK said:
Why would the wood expand more than the glass if its CTE is less than that of glass?

The CTE of the glass is greater than that of glass, so it should expand more on heating and contract more on cooling.
Thank you, now I understand the point.
 
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Surprisingly, they're limited to opening only American jars: :smile:
1685834183097.png
 
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renormalize said:
Surprisingly, they're limited to opening only American jars: :smile:
View attachment 327385
My high school English teacher would say that this a dangling modifier. :smile:
 
Interestingly, real wood has a different coefficient of thermal expansion with the grain than across the grain. This suggests that the lid shape is not preserved. So the real world experience could be that both heating and cooling make the lid more difficult to remove.
 

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