Optimizing Exposure Time for Different Magnitude Stars

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around optimizing exposure time for capturing images of stars with varying magnitudes, specifically focusing on the relationship between signal to noise ratio (S/N) and exposure time. The original poster presents a scenario involving a 6th magnitude star and seeks to determine the necessary exposure time to achieve a higher S/N for both a 2nd magnitude star and under different conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the calculations related to S/N and exposure time, questioning whether the same logic applies when changing the star's magnitude. There is consideration of how the count rate varies with magnitude and the implications for noise calculations.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the mathematical relationships involved in the problem. Some have provided insights into the nature of Poisson noise and its relevance to the calculations. There is an ongoing exploration of how to properly incorporate magnitude differences into the equations being discussed.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of potential additional noise sources beyond Poisson noise, and participants are clarifying the mathematical expressions used in their calculations. The discussion includes a focus on the implications of magnitude differences and how they affect the count rate.

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Summary:: An image was taken with a ##60## second exposure time of a 6th magnitude star and the signal to noise ratio was detected to be ##S/N = 20##.

a. What should the exposure time be if you wanted a ##S/N = 100##?
b. Now calculate the ##S/N## if it were a 2nd magnitude star for a ##10## second exposure.

For part a I got the following:

Let ##S = \mu t##, where ##\mu## is the count and ##t## is time, therefore we have $$S/N = 20$$ $$\frac{\mu t}{\sqrt(\mu t)} = 20$$ $$(\frac{\mu t}{\sqrt(\mu t)})^2= 20^2$$ $$\frac{\mu^2 t^2}{\mu t} = 400$$ therefore the count ##\mu## is ##400##. Therefore in order to get ##S/N = 100## we have $$S/N = 100$$ $$\frac{\mu t}{\sqrt(\mu t)} = 100$$ $$(\frac{400t}{\sqrt(400t)})^2= 100^2$$ $$\frac{400^2 t^2}{400t} = 10000$$ now solving for ##t## I got ##1500## seconds.

But for part b of the question, do I apply the same logic even though the magnitude of the star is different? Or will the logic be different?
 
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The count rate ##\mu## will be different and you can calculate how much it will differ based on the magnitude.

You only consider Poisson noise here - which might be fine (and might be expected within the scope of the problem), but in general there can be other noise sources, too.
 
mfb said:
The count rate ##\mu## will be different and you can calculate how much it will differ based on the magnitude.

You only consider Poisson noise here - which might be fine (and might be expected within the scope of the problem), but in general there can be other noise sources, too.

Yes, the scope is only Poisson. So the count rate for part b will be different due to the change of magnitude? So since the magnitude difference is ##4## will I get the following: $$2.5^4 * \sqrt\frac{400}{\frac{60sec}{10sec}}?$$
 
Why did you put the magnitude difference outside the brackets?
 
mfb said:
Why did you put the magnitude difference outside the brackets?
Hmm which brackets?
 
Eh, I meant the square root.
 
mfb said:
Eh, I meant the square root.

I thought the equation was magnitude times the count? Or does the magnitude need to be inside the square root?
 
2.54 is the ratio of photons per time. Just like all the other terms that scale with the signal it should be in the square root if you calculate signal to noise ratios.
 
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