Order of GL(n, Z/p) Group & Sylow p-Subgroups

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the order of the group GL(n, Z/p) of invertible nxn matrices with entries in Z/p, including the derivation of a general formula and the number of Sylow p-subgroups for various values of n. The conversation encompasses theoretical aspects and mathematical reasoning related to group theory.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a formula for the order of GL(n, Z/p) as (p^n - 1)(p^n - p)...(p^n - p^(n-1)), expressing uncertainty about its correctness.
  • Another participant suggests that the number of independent sequences of vectors can be derived from choices of non-zero vectors, leading to a product involving p^n.
  • A participant questions the rigor of proving the formula's correctness, suggesting an induction approach and expressing confusion about constraints in the proof.
  • There is a discussion about whether showing linear independence is sufficient for proving the formula's correctness.
  • One participant notes that the amount of detail in a proof may depend on the audience and context, indicating variability in expectations for rigor.
  • Another participant admits to not having considered the number of Sylow p-subgroups and expresses a need for further help on that topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the sufficiency of the proof for the formula's correctness and the approach to determining the number of Sylow p-subgroups. No consensus is reached on these points, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for rigor in proofs and the potential variability in expectations based on the audience, highlighting that the discussion may involve assumptions about the level of detail required in mathematical arguments.

e12514
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I need a general formula for the order of the group
GL( n, Z/p ) of invertible nxn matrices with entries in Z/p, under (matrix) multiplication.

I got that,
for n=2 the order is (p^2 -1)(p^2 - p),
for n=3 the order is (p^3 - 1)(p^3 - p)(p^3 - p^2)
...
for n the order is (p^n - 1)(p^n - p)...(p^n - p^(n-1)) (I think?)

which is
p^(n(n-1)/2) * PRODUCT_(i from 1 to n) [p^i - 1]

Is that correct? I'm not sure about it.


Also, the number of Sylow p-subgroups in each case is
n=2 => (p+1) Sylow p-subgroups where the order is p^(2(2-1)/2) = p^1
n=3 => there will be either 1 or (p+1) or (p^2 + p + 1) Sylow p-subgroups where the order is p^3

general case for n => no idea how many... Is it even possible to describe all those Sylow p-subgroups (which will probably be very complicated)? The only thing I know is that they will be of order p^(n(n-1)/2), given my guess was correct.

Can anyone give some help? Thanks.
 
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duhhh? how many independent sequences of vectors exist? first one chooses any non zero vector, in p^n - 1 ways, then one chooses a vector not collinear with that one in p^n - p ways, then one chooses a vector not coplanar with the first two, in p^n - p^2 ways,... get it?
 
How do you (rigorously) prove it is correct? Just describing it like that is not sufficient, right?

For example, if we use an induction approach, we want to multiply the number of choices by p^n ( p^(n+1) - 1 ) when going from n to (n+1) but I can't explain why the " -1 " constraint is among those " p^(n+1) " choices and not anywhere among the (2n+1) entries of that (n+1)x(n+1) matrix above that nxn matrix, if you know what I mean...
Of course there should be other ways of proving the formula is correct but I don't know how.

And then the number of Sylow p-subgroups - I need even more help on that one.
 
Why isn't that sufficient? A matrix is in GL(n,F) if and only if its columns are linearly independent.
 
Sorry, what I should have said was, is it "sufficient to prove the formula is correct" just by saying that "it needs to be linearly independent" and "showing the formula was constructed by having (p^n - 1) choices for the first vector, ..., (p^n - p^k) choices for the kth vector" and so on. Is that regarded as a proper proof?

And would you have any ideas as for the number of Sylow p-subgroups in each case? Does there exist a general formula?
 
The amount of detail you need to insert into a proof depends on the audience. If you're just convincing yourself, or some mathematically minded person, this is fine. If you want to get full marks in an exam, then you may wish to add more details; I wouldn't.

I can't say I've ever thought of the number of Sylows, sorry.
 
Oh right, that's cool. Thanks.
 
Generally speaking, to obtain full marks it should suffice to convince the grader that you could supply more detail if asked. Generally speaking, the very best students write the minimum required to achieve this standard. Which makes the grader's job much easier :wink:

(Forgive me if I guessed incorrectly that this was a homework problem in a modern algebra course, but it is very often set as a problem in such courses. BTW, there is special "Homework help" forum with special rules at PF.)
 

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