Order of product of elements in a group

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the order of products of elements in finite groups, specifically within the context of the special linear group $$SL_2(\mathbb{F}_q)$$. Participants explore the implications of Lagrange's theorem and the structure of the quotient group formed by dividing out the center of the group.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the proof in Milne's notes regarding the order of the product of elements and seeks clarification on the images of elements in the quotient group $$SL_2(\mathbb{F}_q)/ \{+-I\}$$.
  • Another participant explains that the images of elements in the quotient group are of the form {a, -a}, where $$a$$ is an element of $$SL_2(\mathbb{F}_q)$$, and describes the canonical function mapping elements to their cosets.
  • There is a discussion about why the orders of elements $$a, b, c$$ are divided by 2, with references to specific examples and the unique element of order 2 in $$SL_2(\mathbb{F}_q)$$.
  • One participant expresses concern that the original poster may not be ready for Milne's monograph, suggesting that the assertion about the uniqueness of the element of order 2 requires proof, particularly for certain values of $$p$$.
  • A suggestion is made to consider alternative resources for foundational understanding in algebra.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the structure of the quotient group and the implications of Lagrange's theorem, but there is disagreement regarding the assertion about the uniqueness of the element of order 2 in $$SL_2(\mathbb{F}_q)$$, particularly for specific cases. The discussion remains unresolved on this point.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the uniqueness of elements of certain orders in $$SL_2(\mathbb{F}_q)$$, and the discussion does not fully resolve the mathematical steps involved in proving these properties.

Arnold1
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Hello.

I'm just beginning my course in algebra. I've been reading Milne, Group Theory ( http://www.jmilne.org/math/CourseNotes/GT310.pdf page 29).
I've found there a very nice proof of the fact that given two elements in a finite group, we cannot really say very much about their product's order. However, there are some things about the proof I do not quite understand. Namely - the first paragraph. What are the images of elements in $$SL_2(\mathbb{F}_q)/ \{+-I\}$$ and why do we divide the orders of $$a, \ b, \ c$$ by $$2$$?

Is it because the centre($$ \{+-I\} $$) has order $$2$$ and thus by Lagrange's theorem, the order of the quotient group must be two times smaller?I would really appreciate a thorough explanation. Maybe you know a simpler proof of the fact (about the order of product of elements)?Thank you.
 
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Arnold said:
Hello.

I'm just beginning my course in algebra. I've been reading Milne, Group Theory ( http://www.jmilne.org/math/CourseNotes/GT310.pdf page 29).
I've found there a very nice proof of the fact that given two elements in a finite group, we cannot really say very much about their product's order. However, there are some things about the proof I do not quite understand. Namely - the first paragraph. What are the images of elements in $$SL_2(\mathbb{F}_q)/ \{+-I\}$$ and why do we divide the orders of $$a, \ b, \ c$$ by $$2$$?
If $a$ has order $2m$ then $a^m$ has order $2$. But, as Milne points out, $-I$ is the unique element of order $2$ in $\text{SL}_2(\mathbb{F}_q)$. Therefore $a^m = -I$, so that (the coset of) $a^m$ is the identity element in the quotient group $\text{SL}_2(\mathbb{F}_q)/\{\pm I\}.$ It follows that the image of $a$ has order $m$ in the quotient group.

Thank you for that link! It looks as though Milne's notes are an excellent free online resource for group theory.
 
Last edited:
You're welcome. Thank you for the explanation.
 
Welcome to MHB, Arnold! :)

Arnold said:
What are the images of elements in $$SL_2(\mathbb{F}_q)/ \{+-I\}$$

Let's first start with the elements.
The elements have the form {a,-a}, where $a \in SL_2(\mathbb{F}_q)$, which is a 2x2 matrix with elements from $\mathbb Z/q\mathbb Z$.

There is a so called natural or canonical function $SL_2(\mathbb{F}_q) \to SL_2(\mathbb{F}_q)/ \{\pm I\}$, given by $a \mapsto \{a,-a\}$.
Milne means that the image of an element a is {a,-a}, since a itself is not an element of the quotient group.

why do we divide the orders of $$a, \ b, \ c$$ by $$2$$?

Let's pick an example in $SL_2(F_3)$
$$a=\begin{pmatrix}1 & 1 \\ 1 & 2\end{pmatrix},\ a^2 = \begin{pmatrix}-1 & 0 \\ 0 & -1\end{pmatrix}$$
So $a$ has order 4.
Since $a^2 = -I$ already belongs to the coset $\{\pm I\}$, which is the identity element, the order of {a,-a} is 2.

Is it because the centre($$ \{+-I\} $$) has order $$2$$ and thus by Lagrange's theorem, the order of the quotient group must be two times smaller?

Yes.
 
Hi,
Here's some unsolicited advice. From your question, I don't think you should be studying Milne's monograph yet. Case in point, the theorem in your question. The first assertion is that SL(2,q) with q=pk has a unique element of order 2. I think this requires some proof, which to me is not obvious. Furthermore, the statement is false if p=2 -- If you can easily prove the above, I retract my advice. So my advice to you is to get a good grounding in basic algebra before you go back to Milne.

P.S. In case you can read German, the very old but still very good book Endliche Gruppe I by B. Huppert is a very comprehensive treatment. It is virtually self contained; that is, all necessary facts from other branches of algebra are presented.
 

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