Origin Story Of The First Proteins

[Navin]

Now i had a question,but before that look at this.

Now by the central dogma
DNA is transcribed by RNA polymerase onto mRNA and this leads to translation which creates Protiens.

But hold on...The polymerase itself is an enzyme ie ;a protein .

So to make proteins...you need proteins aldredy present in the body...so

How did the first proteins ever come to be !

 

[.Scott]

Nobody knows.
But this article addresses the subject:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/researchers-may-have-solved-origin-life-conundrum

 

[Navin]

S

Nobody knows.
But this article addresses the subject:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/researchers-may-have-solved-origin-life-conundrum

Superb article !
im not satisfied with the usual "no one knows answer"
So what are your opinions.

Its always fun to spit out self made hypotheses !

 

[.Scott]

So what are your opinions.

I would note that the minimum "bootstrap" s some thing that can:
1) Holds information (at least thousands of bits);
2) Will self-replicate - even given months or years and a very favorable environment.
3) Can evolve.

So the initial biology may not have had anything as luxurious as RNA, DNA, or mRNA. There may be other information carriers that go unrecognized because they as so inefficient.

Since the OP wants "opinions" (aka, speculation), should this stay under the "Biology" heading?

 

[Navin]

I would note that the minimum "bootstrap" s some thing that can:
1) Holds information (at least thousands of bits);
2) Will self-replicate - even given months or years and a very favorable environment.
3) Can evolve.

So the initial biology may not have had anything as luxurious as RNA, DNA, or mRNA. There may be other information carriers that go unrecognized because they as so inefficient.

Thats an exccelant point.

 

[jim mcnamara]

@Navin

Its always fun to spit out self made hypotheses !

No! It is okay on Reddit. Not here. We are an educational site, not meant for speculation, so please do not hypothesize from ignorance, just cite known research.

And no, @.Scott. This thread is going for a one way trip to general discussion. And if becomes too speculative the mentors there will take additional action.

 

[Vanadium 50]

im not satisfied with the usual "no one knows answer"

Too bad. In science, if we don't know, we say we don't know. We don't make stuff up.

 

[ZapperZ]

Its always fun to spit out self made hypotheses !

You might want to read the PF Rules that you had agreed to before you have way too much fun.

Zz.

 

[Borek]

RNA is capable of catalyzing reactions, no need for proteins.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Now i had a question,but before that look at this.

Now by the central dogma
DNA is transcribed by RNA polymerase onto mRNA and this leads to translation which creates Protiens.

But hold on...The polymerase itself is an enzyme ie ;a protein .

So to make proteins...you need proteins aldredy present in the body...so

How did the first proteins ever come to be !

Protein synthesis occurs on the ribosome, and while the modern ribosome does contain protein, protein synthesis seems to be catalyzed only by RNA. So, it is plausible in prebiotic times, protein synthesis (or at least peptide synthesis) was catalyzed by RNA.

In fact, as others in this thread have alluded to, RNA is a very versatile molecule capable of both storing genetic information (e.g. many modern viruses like the influenza virus store their genetic information as RNA) as well as serving as catalysts (ribozymes). These facts led scientists to come up with the "RNA world" hypothesis, which envisions that life began as self-replicating RNA molecules. To demonstrate the feasibility of this hypothesis, scientists have been making attempts at engineering self-replicating RNAs in the lab (see, for example, this PF thread discussing the topic: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/amplification-of-rna-by-an-rna-polymerase-ribozyme.882293/).

For some speculation about the origin of proteins, see my post here: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/how-did-proteins-evolve.927139/#post-5852459

See this PF thread for more discussion of theories around abiogenesis: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/which-was-the-origin-dna-rna-or-protein.562096/

 

[Navin]

Okay

@Navin


No! It is okay on Reddit. Not here. We are an educational site, not meant for speculation, so please do not hypothesize from ignorance, just cite known research.

And no, @.Scott. This thread is going for a one way trip to general discussion. And if becomes too speculative the mentors there will take additional action.

Too bad. In science, if we don't know, we say we don't know. We don't make stuff up.

On secand thought let not continue this.

They are right.
This is afterall an education site and speculations may mislead someone who has no idea about what's going on

So let's end it at " We don't know"

Science is absolute and can't dwell into fantasy.

But i still feel we can't just take such stuff for granted though.
We can't just always say "we don't know" and neither do i think people should supress opinions.
There is an answer out there and there are bright minds with fancy degrees on this site.

 

[Borek]

There is an answer out there and there are bright minds with fancy degrees

And you can be sure they are not wasting their time, but researching Just because they don't know as of yet doesn't mean they will not make progress. There is no guarantee we will know everything though.

 

[Navin]

Wait a minute since this thread has been shifted to general discussion (atleast thsts what my device tells me) is it now safe to continue speculations ?

@Navin


No! It is okay on Reddit. Not here. We are an educational site, not meant for speculation, so please do not hypothesize from ignorance, just cite known research.

And no, @.Scott. This thread is going for a one way trip to general discussion. And if becomes too speculative the mentors there will take additional action.

Im kinda new actually...

 

[Borek]

is it now safe to continue speculations ?

No.

 

[Navin]

Fine..fine...(looks enviously at those darn Reddit users)
[IT WAS A JOKE ! A JOKE ! Noo don't ban me noo-"]