Why this relation is true when computing the Gaussian integral?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of Gaussian integrals and the conditions under which certain multiplicative factors can be moved in and out of integrals. Participants explore the implications of these properties for other functions and the reasoning behind the calculations involved in Gaussian integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the relationship between the product of two integrals of Gaussian functions and a double integral of their combined form, questioning the underlying conditions for similar applications.
  • Another participant explains that multiplicative factors independent of the integration variable can be moved in and out of integrals, providing a hint regarding the factorization of the exponential function.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the ingenuity lies not in the step of moving factors but in the overall calculation process of the Gaussian integral, including the change of variables used.
  • Several participants express confusion about the validity of moving functions in and out of integrals, seeking clarification on the conditions that allow such manipulations.
  • One participant attempts to clarify that if one integral is a constant with respect to the other variable, it can be factored out, but acknowledges the complexity of double integrals and the need for careful consideration of limits and properties of the functions involved.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of these manipulations to improper integrals and the necessity for certain properties of the functions involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the calculations involved in Gaussian integrals and whether the steps taken are intuitive or require deeper understanding. There is no consensus on the ease of moving factors in and out of integrals, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the conditions for various types of integrals.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the validity of moving factors in and out of integrals may depend on the independence of variables in the limits of integration and the properties of the functions involved, particularly in the case of improper integrals.

Arian.D
Messages
101
Reaction score
0
\int_0^\infty e^{-x^2}dx \int_0^\infty e^{-y^2}dy = \int_0^\infty \int_0^\infty e^{-(x^2+y^2)} dxdy

Under what conditions we could do the same for other functions? I don't get how Poisson (or Euler, or Gauss, whoever that did this for the first time) realized that this is true. It looks quite ingenious to me and I wonder if there's a theorem or something that I could apply to similar cases and this case as well.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You can move any multiplicative factor that doesn't depend on the integration variable into or out of the relevant integral.

Hint: e^{-(x^2+y^2)} = e^{-x^2} e^{-y^2}.
 
That's not ingenious. That's just knowing calculus well. What's somewhat ingenious is the calculation as a whole. That step isn't really the trick. The trick is doing that change of variables at the beginning.
 
Muphrid said:
You can move any multiplicative factor that doesn't depend on the integration variable into or out of the relevant integral.

Hint: e^{-(x^2+y^2)} = e^{-x^2} e^{-y^2}.

I don't understand, would you care to explain what you mean by this?
I'm sure you don't mean that we could move e^{_y^2} into the integral with respect to x, do you? so if I have:
I = \int_a^b f(x)dx . \int_a^b g(y)dy
Could I conclude that:
I = \int_a^b \int_a^b f(x).g(y) dxdy

Why so? This doesn't look obvious to me at all :-(

homeomorphic said:
That's not ingenious. That's just knowing calculus well. What's somewhat ingenious is the calculation as a whole. That step isn't really the trick. The trick is doing that change of variables at the beginning.
Yea, I meant the whole calculation process of the Gaussian integral is ingenious, not particularly this step. I liked the proof so much, I also found another proof due to Laplace on wikipedia that was beautiful as well.
 
Arian.D said:
I don't understand, would you care to explain what you mean by this?
I'm sure you don't mean that we could move e^{_y^2} into the integral with respect to x, do you? so if I have:
I = \int_a^b f(x)dx . \int_a^b g(y)dy
Could I conclude that:
I = \int_a^b \int_a^b f(x).g(y) dxdy

Why so? This doesn't look obvious to me at all :-(

As far as the x integral is concerned, g(y) is a constant factor that you can move into it or pull out of it as easily as you could with a true constant like, say, the number 5.
 
Muphrid said:
As far as the x integral is concerned, g(y) is a constant factor that you can move into it or pull out of it as easily as you could with a true constant like, say, the number 5.

yes, but you can't move dx into the second integral for sure. The problem is not how g(y) goes in, the problem is how the double integral appears. That's where I found it not obvious enough to be taken for granted intuitively. I'd be thankful if you care to explain it in details or show me a proof of this.
 
Let \int_a^b f(x) \; dx = F, which is just a number with no y-dependence.

I = F \int_a^b g(y) \; dy = \int_a^b F g(y) \; dy = \int_a^b \left(\int_a^b f(x) \; dx \right) g(y) \; dy

From there, g(y) can be moved into the x-integral exactly as I described.
 
Muphrid said:
Let \int_a^b f(x) \; dx = F, which is just a number with no y-dependence.

I = F \int_a^b g(y) \; dy = \int_a^b F g(y) \; dy = \int_a^b \left(\int_a^b f(x) \; dx \right) g(y) \; dy

From there, g(y) can be moved into the x-integral exactly as I described.

Nice. Thanks. Sounds convincing.
But we can do this if the integrals are indefinite, right? because the anti-derivative of f(x) is still a function of x and is independent of y?

Also, if the integrals are improper, then we need f or g (or maybe both) to have some nice properties, because then we'll have to move a limit into an integral which isn't always true. Right? or we could easily generalize the same argument to improper integrals as well?
 
As long as neither y nor x appear in the limits of the integrals, this approach ought to be valid.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
5K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K