Overcoming Haughtiness for Scientists

[Lacy33]

Modest men are not competent men. This is not to say that you triumph your successes at every turn, making unnatural jumps in conversation to present them, but rather to mention them casually at the appropriate moment and not suppress them.

Quick! Duct tape my mouth! Pour sugar all over me. Lock my lips!
Enough said.

 

[cobalt124]

Modest men are not competent men. This is not to say that you triumph your successes at every turn, making unnatural jumps in conversation to present them, but rather to mention them casually at the appropriate moment and not suppress them.

That is surely untrue. Any achievement is not measured by whether, when or how it is spoken about, it is measured by whether it is achieved. Saying that though, I've been in workplace situations where what you say holds true, but I tend not to take any notice of it.

 

[nismaratwork]

That is surely untrue. Any achievement is not measured by whether, when or how it is spoken about, it is measured by whether it is achieved. Saying that though, I've been in workplace situations where what you say holds true, but I tend not to take any notice of it.

True... obvious confidence is a good thing, but that's a far cry from being haughty.

I'd add, is anyone else laughing nearly constantly at the title of this thread? "how to refrain haughtiness"... no... "How to refrain from haughtiness."

Beyond that, the basic principles of "tough guy" life applies: The loud guy telling everyone how tough he is... is terrified. The guy who's quietly trimming his nails with a knife... is dangerous.

False modesty is one thing... true modesty is an awareness that you're not the greatest person on earth... far from it.

 

[nismaratwork]

Quick! Duct tape my mouth! Pour sugar all over me. Lock my lips!
Enough said.

I think you should speak your mind on this one... I'm finding everything from the OP to present quite obnoxious, and horribly unjustified.

 

[Lacy33]

I think you should speak your mind on this one... I'm finding everything from the OP to present quite obnoxious, and horribly unjustified.

Well Thanks! If I had a mind I would use it. I lost it in battle years ago..
But you all are doing just fine.
The op is finding company and that may be of more value than addressing the op only. Bring everyone to the table on this one and talk it out.

I am just too wild, violent and rude to be at the actual table. I am however watching this on close circut TV. ...
from a padded room. ...

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Modest men are not competent men. This is not to say that you triumph your successes at every turn, making unnatural jumps in conversation to present them, but rather to mention them casually at the appropriate moment and not suppress them.

I am both modest and competent. In fact I am the most competent person here. And the most modest person in the world.

 

[l-1j-cho]

Sounds like you are more smart like a machine. I think a "genius" is something else that invloves creativity.
A lot of people have minds like machines. But they have very little personality.
...

I can't agree more that a genius involves creativity.
Also, I personally don't enjoy mechanical problem solving as much as expanding the field (I don;t know it is appropriate to say, but I enjoy generalization, suggesting limitation, or application to other theories(I am a mere high school student, so it might be inappropriate to say 'theory')).

 

[DanP]

Modest men are not competent men. This is not to say that you triumph your successes at every turn, making unnatural jumps in conversation to present them, but rather to mention them casually at the appropriate moment and not suppress them.

It is not your qualities which define competence, but results.

You have results ? You are competent by definition.

You don't have them ? You are just a sorry rag.

 

[Lacy33]

It is not your qualities which define competence, but results.

You have results ? You are competent by definition.

You don't have them ? You are just a sorry rag.

And what kind of work do you think there be for 'sorry rag' in this many minded genius community?

 

[DanP]

I can't agree more that a genius involves creativity.
Also, I personally don't enjoy mechanical problem solving as much as expanding the field (I don;t know it is appropriate to say, but I enjoy generalization, suggesting limitation, or application to other theories(I am a mere high school student, so it might be inappropriate to say 'theory')).

You are not expanding anything, but your personal knowledge at your level. So you can't possibly know what it feels to expand the "field"

 

[OmCheeto]

This might be common amongst natural scientists but I cannot refrain my haughtiness. I think this is my inherent personality. I know it is wrong and I better change my personality but how to?

Pfft...

This thread is so beneath me.

I prefer threads started by unnatural scientists...

 

[JaredJames]

Have to return here for a moment.

I don't tell people that I am smart, but I think my behaviour implies that I am smart.

The above statement doesn't make sense with the below:

For instance, I never take notes in physics or mathematics class and I never do homework, but still I get satisfactory accomplishment (above 90%).

I know a great number of students on my course who are fantastic at the theory and don't need to work that hard at it, but when it comes to the practical side of things they are absolute tools.

Not taking notes and not doing homework does not present you as "smart", instead it shows you to be arrogant. You may well be smart enough to do those things, but that's not what people see from it.

Eventually you'll get to a point where this attitude will catch you out.

Actually, if others ask me if I am smart, I usually smile or try to change the subject, or simply say 'thank you'. But I think, from my behaviour, I think I want to be recoginzed by others as a genius, where I hardly don;t think I am

There is nothing from what you've posted here that makes me believe you're anything but arrogant. As others have mentioned, you seem to be able to do things "machine like". Genius is a whole other level.

 

[l-1j-cho]

You are not expanding anything, but your personal knowledge at your level. So you can't possibly know what it feels to expand the "field"

That's why I said 'it might not be appropirate to say', since I am merely a high school student. Anyway, then, could you explain to me what does it feel like to 'expand the field'?
I eagerly want to know what does the actual world of natural science look like

 

[DanP]

I eagerly want to know what does the actual world of natural science look like

Like most of the science looks like. Cutting edge work coupled with an endless run for funding and display of political skills in your collective.

 

[l-1j-cho]

Have to return here for a moment.


The above statement doesn't make sense with the below:


I know a great number of students on my course who are fantastic at the theory and don't need to work that hard at it, but when it comes to the practical side of things they are absolute tools.

Not taking notes and not doing homework does not present you as "smart", instead it shows you to be arrogant. You may well be smart enough to do those things, but that's not what people see from it.

Eventually you'll get to a point where this attitude will catch you out.


There is nothing from what you've posted here that makes me believe you're anything but arrogant. As others have mentioned, you seem to be able to do things "machine like". Genius is a whole other level.

Yeah. I have considered myself arrogant as well. But, I am easily fluctuated by others' compliment, of which were or sarcastic or not wholehearted. People used to say to me that 'this guy never takes notes or does his homework and he still gets 100%. He is a genius" Repeatedly, I know they are implying that I am arrogant, but I just can't admit the fact.

 

[l-1j-cho]

True... obvious confidence is a good thing, but that's a far cry from being haughty.

I'd add, is anyone else laughing nearly constantly at the title of this thread? "how to refrain haughtiness"... no... "How to refrain from haughtiness."

Beyond that, the basic principles of "tough guy" life applies: The loud guy telling everyone how tough he is... is terrified. The guy who's quietly trimming his nails with a knife... is dangerous.

False modesty is one thing... true modesty is an awareness that you're not the greatest person on earth... far from it.

sorry, english is not my first language

 

[Lacy33]

Here dear l-1j-cho,
Talk to a trusted adult about getting a tune-up on that fast little car of yours before racing it on the track in the middle of a professional race. Really! You have a lot of buddy support here. You need it at home too. If for some reason it is not good combination with your culture you can contact a mentor first or me and others.
See this link for a start:
http://teenmentalhealth.org/index.php/families/links-for-parents-and-teens/"

Sometime really smart young people need instruction how to operate the fancy machines they are given.
Good idea to read instruction book first.

 

[nismaratwork]

I can't agree more that a genius involves creativity.
Also, I personally don't enjoy mechanical problem solving as much as expanding the field (I don;t know it is appropriate to say, but I enjoy generalization, suggesting limitation, or application to other theories(I am a mere high school student, so it might be inappropriate to say 'theory')).

Get a grip... you haven't actually demonstrated anything, just talked. If you want an honest appraisal, you don't strike me as particularly bright, never mind genius. You don't seem stupid, but how this thread is anything other than an attempt to fish for compliments and confirmation of what you already believe escapes me. You seem to have fallen to an old foe I've mentioned before: Illusory Superiority.

Show us some of your genius, and we can possibly pare that down to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

or

You may really be incredibly bright, in which case you desperately need to work on your social skills, and again, more information is needed.

 

[nismaratwork]

sorry, english is not my first language

Korean? I can probably manage a comprehensible translation.

 

[l-1j-cho]

Like most of the science looks like. Cutting edge work coupled with an endless run for funding and display of political skills in your collective.

wow... that's quite different from what I used to think... coldness

 

[l-1j-cho]

Korean? I can probably manage a comprehensible translation.

how did you know?

 

[jreelawg]

My mother is a clean freak, and always needs to keep the house very clean and tidy. She has a guest, who live comparatively messier. There is a very minor amount of mess perhaps entirely unrecognizable as a mess to the guest. My mother tells the guest she is sorry that her house is a complete disaster, and a pig sty. The guest is offended as her house must then be worse than a pig sty.

 

[nismaratwork]

how did you know?

I'm just that good... that or, "Cho" is generally a South Korean name.

We're not your enemies man, but without more information it's hard to get a read (understaing of you) on you.

 

[Lacy33]

sorry, english is not my first language

That's ok. Select a few buddies and get off the freeway fast. NOW KID!
You can PM me and I will give you 6o more buddies... not all from here.

 

[nismaratwork]

I'd add, plenty of people here do not speak English as their first language, so that shouldn't bother you. I should be clear, I find the title funny, but I didn't mean to be insulting by assuming you spoke native English. Rather, I just found it funny in the abstract sense.

 

[Lacy33]

Hot Dog! nismar at work! And who agreed you could take a break? Thanks for coming back...

 

[DanP]

Yeah. I have considered myself arrogant as well. But, I am easily fluctuated by others' compliment, of which were or sarcastic or not wholehearted. People used to say to me that 'this guy never takes notes or does his homework and he still gets 100%. He is a genius" Repeatedly, I know they are implying that I am arrogant, but I just can't admit the fact.

I have no idea what it means to climb at the top in science, but I can tell you about other things.

We have kids steeping in the training halls of different sports which are extremely gifted genetically. They are fast, strong and they just get technical skills very easy. Its easy to get a feeling that you are superior. And maybe indeed you are. You have some genetic gifts. But it is not enough.

If they neglect their preparation, other less genetically gifted will soon breath in their nape. And before they know it, they found out that being gifted is not enough.It only takes you so far. You'll get behind those less gifted but who are audacious to hell. Some simply never find a way to the top and get lost in mediocrity. Others get it, and start taking their training with utmost seriousness and dedication. Those have the chance to get to the top.

Simply put it, if you have genetic gifts , don't mock them and yourself. Cultivate them on a daily basis.

 

[nismaratwork]

Hot Dog! nismar at work! And who agreed you could take a break? Thanks for coming back...

OK, so I'm not consistantly the nicest person on the planet... Sorry Cho...

 

[l-1j-cho]

Here dear l-1j-cho,
Talk to a trusted adult about getting a tune-up on that fast little car of yours before racing it on the track in the middle of a professional race. Really! You have a lot of buddy support here. You need it at home too. If for some reason it is not good combination with your culture you can contact a mentor first or me and others.
See this link for a start:
http://teenmentalhealth.org/index.php/families/links-for-parents-and-teens/"

Sometime really smart young people need instruction how to operate the fancy machines they are given.
Good idea to read instruction book first.

wait, is my mental instability considerably serious? oh my...

 

[l-1j-cho]

I have no idea what it means to climb at the top in science, but I can tell you about other things.

We have kids steeping in the training halls of different sports which are extremely gifted genetically. They are fast, strong and they just get technical skills very easy. Its easy to get a feeling that you are superior. And maybe indeed you are. You have some genetic gifts. But it is not enough.

If they neglect their preparation, other less genetically gifted will soon breath in their nape. And before they know it, they found out that being gifted is not enough.It only takes you so far. You'll get behind those less gifted but who are audacious to hell. Some simply never find a way to the top and get lost in mediocrity. Others get it, and start taking their training with utmost seriousness and dedication. Those have the chance to get to the top.

Simply put it, if you have genetic gifts , don't mock them and yourself. Cultivate them on a daily basis.

Of course I will, in the universities. but I make lame excuses that because of other works (history or english) I can't afford time on doing physics or mathematics. I really want to go to unviersity soon

 

[DanP]

Of course I will, in the universities. but I make lame excuses that because of other works (history or english) I can't afford time on doing physics or mathematics. I really want to go to unviersity soon

No. Looser are the one who always delay action to the future. "I will when I get to university.." might be your undoing. Start today and cultivate the habit. Else youll most likely just have the same habits of delaying and not taking things serious for ever. Youll just find other excuses at university.

 

[JaredJames]

Of course I will, in the universities. but I make lame excuses that because of other works (history or english) I can't afford time on doing physics or mathematics. I really want to go to unviersity soon

Are you looking for us to say you're a genius and should be in university a few years ahead of normal?

I've seen nothing that would make me think this.

You may not find those other subjects important, but in the big wide world a general knowledge of them is incredibly important.

 

[nismaratwork]

No. Looser are the one who always delay action to the future. "I will when I get to university.." might be your undoing. Start today and cultivate the habit. Else youll most likely just have the same habits of delaying and not taking things serious for ever. Youll just find other excuses at university.

This is VERY good advice... every productive genius I can think of, Einstein, Newton, Dirac, Planck... worked their BUTTS off, in ways we'd rarely subject ourselves to without need. Being driven towards a goal that you have, and truly want, helps.

 

[Lacy33]

wait, is my mental instability considerably serious? oh my...

NO NO! You are fine! I said a tune-up, not an overhaul.
You may need some information that's all.
You do not seem mentally unstable to me at all but then I am NOT a professional.
Here in USA it is the in thing to see a therapist.
Information that's all. If you do not have this in your counrty then there are places on line you can access good information to enter in that computer brain of yours to crunch out some humble thinking.

 

[l-1j-cho]

I think my biggest problem is I don't want to admit the fact that I am not a genius as Leonhard Euler. Here is an anecdote of myself

One day our math club teacher introduced the beauty of perfect numbers and suggested to think about the reason an odd perfect number does not exist. Wasting few packages of papers, I came up with a conclusion that an odd perfect number, if it only exists, has to be in a form of (4p+1)^(4k+1) x Q^(2m) blahblah. I thought it was a truly marvelous discovery, then with the help of the internet, I soon realized that this was already done by Euler. After a moment of disappointment, I felt quite content and satisfactory that I have done something creative by 'MYSELF' of which Euler did few centuries ago

In fact, that proof is really easy to understand. I bet many other high school students could do that without any help. But the very fact that I did it by myself, I think I have fallen to delusion that I am a genious. Which contradicts the other side of me that I am not an innate genious

 

[l-1j-cho]

No. Looser are the one who always delay action to the future. "I will when I get to university.." might be your undoing. Start today and cultivate the habit. Else youll most likely just have the same habits of delaying and not taking things serious for ever. Youll just find other excuses at university.

thanks for the advice. I should clean my room and rearrange my binder

 

[l-1j-cho]

NO NO! You are fine! I said a tune-up, not an overhaul.
You may need some information that's all.
You do not seem mentally unstable to me at all but then I am NOT a professional.
Here in USA it is the in thing to see a therapist.
Information that's all. If you do not have this in your counrty then there are places on line you can access good information to enter in that computer brain of yours to crunch out some humble thinking.

Currently I live in Canada, so i am pretty sure that I have accessibility to those. Thanks for the suggestion

 

[DanP]

You may not find those other subjects important, but in the big wide world a general knowledge of them is incredibly important.

Actually no. You learn and you will be taught a lot of things in your life which you will never use again. It's time wasted for ever.

The process is not perfect. But it is the best and simplest way to learn the what you are interested in, and you want to dedicate your life to. There simply aint another way, unfortunately.

 

[nismaratwork]

I think my biggest problem is I don't want to admit the fact that I am not a genius as Leonhard Euler. Here is an anecdote of myself

One day our math club teacher introduced the beauty of perfect numbers and suggested to think about the reason an odd perfect number does not exist. Wasting few packages of papers, I came up with a conclusion that an odd perfect number, if it only exists, has to be in a form of (4p+1)^(4k+1) x Q^(2m) blahblah. I thought it was a truly marvelous discovery, then with the help of the internet, I soon realized that this was already done by Euler. After a moment of disappointment, I felt quite content and satisfactory that I have done something creative by 'MYSELF' of which Euler did few centuries ago

In fact, that proof is really easy to understand. I bet many other high school students could do that without any help. But the very fact that I did it by myself, I think I have fallen to delusion that I am a genious. Which contradicts the other side of me that I am not an innate genious

Now that's understandable; you're at an age where you SHOULD be exploring what you can do, and if you reach a very high level that's great. HOWEVER... Euler is one hell of a standard to hold yourself to... I'd strongly consider aiming for the stars as much as you want, but don't flog yourself if you fall short. Balance in all things Cho, and that includes a balance between drive/ambition, and reality.

You never know, where you land may not be the stars, but it may be quite a ways.

 

[nismaratwork]

Actually no. You learn and you will be taught a lot of things in your life which you will never use again. It's time wasted for ever.

The process is not perfect. But it is the best and simplest way to learn the what you are interested in, and you want to dedicate your life to. There simply aint another way, unfortunately.

I don't know... how you shape your thinking seems to involve a multitude of factors, and certainly you need both the means to excell at your craft and express that to others.

 

[Lacy33]

I think my biggest problem is I don't want to admit the fact that I am not a genius as Leonhard Euler. Here is an anecdote of myself

One day our math club teacher introduced the beauty of perfect numbers and suggested to think about the reason an odd perfect number does not exist. Wasting few packages of papers, I came up with a conclusion that an odd perfect number, if it only exists, has to be in a form of (4p+1)^(4k+1) x Q^(2m) blahblah. I thought it was a truly marvelous discovery, then with the help of the internet, I soon realized that this was already done by Euler. After a moment of disappointment, I felt quite content and satisfactory that I have done something creative by 'MYSELF' of which Euler did few centuries ago

In fact, that proof is really easy to understand. I bet many other high school students could do that without any help. But the very fact that I did it by myself, I think I have fallen to delusion that I am a genious. Which contradicts the other side of me that I am not an innate genious

OK if you are a "genius", then you don't need us to tell you.
If you are a "genius" you are a very young person and remain unpublished. You have faced no peer review. You have done no high level university course work. You are not even being tutored by a university student if I understand correctly.
If you are a "genius" then you understand that the beginning of genius is the fear of what you don't know (paraphrased) and after you have done all the basics and are on par with the best in the field you can seek out your personal direction and advance the field a fraction of an inch like all other researchers today.
If you want to play genius for the day, go ahead.
But the people here have real learning to do. Read them, ask a small question here and there and then go to university and do the course work like everyone else.

 

[DanP]

... and express that to others.

Some idiots found fit to force me to learn Latin in a certain period of my life , for example. Time wasted for ever. I never exchanged a single word in Latin in my life since then, and Ill never will. I would have been WAY better off with one year of Arabic or Chinese.

 

[nismaratwork]

Some idiots found fit to force me to learn Latin in a certain period of my life , for example. Time wasted for ever. I never exchanged a single word in Latin in my life since then, and Ill never will. I would have been WAY better off with one year of Arabic or Chinese.

Ecce Romani!

Yeah... I got that too, under the guise that it would help with English. Far from it, given the strange turns my brain takes around language, English helped me with latin.

Still, learning a second language in general is valuable... that's not a subject that's obviated.

 

[l-1j-cho]

OK if you are a "genius", then you don't need us to tell you.
If you are a "genius" you are a very young person and remain unpublished. You have faced no peer review. You have done no high level university course work. You are not even being tutored by a university student if I understand correctly.
If you are a "genius" then you understand that the beginning of genius is the fear of what you don't know (paraphrased) and after you have done all the basics and are on par with the best in the field you can seek out your personal direction and advance the field a fraction of an inch like all other researchers today.
If you want to play genius for the day, go ahead.
But the people here have real learning to do. Read them, ask a small question here and there and then go to university and do the course work like everyone else.

seems like i was immature. I appologize

 

[Lacy33]

seems like i was immature. I appologize

No worry. We are all the same. Let's be buddies and when you go through periods of advancement and discovery we will all celebrate with you.

 

[l-1j-cho]

Since the age of 9, I have wanted to get attention of others. And I think mathematics has been a tool to express my superority, which I have realized as ignorance. From now on, I should be more mature and modest

 

[l-1j-cho]

Thank you all!

 

[OmCheeto]

Thank you all!

You're welcome.

And just remember my motto; "Moro Meda!"

 

[l-1j-cho]

You're welcome.

And just remember my motto; "Moro Meda!"

what does that mean??

 

[mugaliens]

If you compare yourself with others you will become vain or bitter.

Or challenged and/or better.

Don't be such a defeatist, dude!