Oxidation state and chiral configurations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining oxidation states and absolute configurations in a biochemistry context, specifically related to a problem involving nucleoside phosphorothioates. Participants explore the methods for calculating oxidation states and the assignment of chiral configurations, addressing discrepancies in their findings compared to provided answers.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a method for calculating oxidation states based on bonding with electronegative atoms but questions their own results compared to another source.
  • Another participant asserts the oxidation state of phosphorus is +5 and nitrogen is -2, noting the nitrogen is bonded to two carbon atoms.
  • A participant agrees with the oxidation state of nitrogen being -3, emphasizing the phrasing of bonding to carbon.
  • Discussion on chiral centers includes a participant's reasoning for assigning R configuration based on priority rules, with specific attention to the bonds involved.
  • Another participant challenges the priority assignment, questioning the rationale behind prioritizing carbon over nitrogen based on atomic weight.
  • A later reply supports the original claim about the R configuration, affirming that the reasoning is correct.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the oxidation states of nitrogen and phosphorus, with some agreeing on specific values while others challenge them. There is also disagreement regarding the assignment of priorities in chiral configurations, indicating a lack of consensus on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific bonding scenarios and priority rules, but there are unresolved assumptions about the definitions of oxidation states and the criteria for determining chiral configurations.

Puchinita5
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I'm doing this same problem found on the following link for a biochemistry homework.

http://www.chegg.com/homework-help/questions-and-answers/nucleoside-phosphorothioates-synthetic-nucleotide-analogs-used-enzymology-molecular-biolog-q1481931



My question is regarding both finding the oxidation states as well as finding the absolute configurations.

I am told in my lecture notes that to find the oxidation state you take "the number of bonds the atom forms with more electronegative atoms less the number of the bonds that it forms with less electronegative atoms. The charge should be added to this sum."

However, I am not getting the same answers as given here and so I'm not sure if the person who answered this is wrong or if I'm wrong. But, for example, the first Phosphorous I would have calculated the oxidation state to be +5 since it makes two bonds with Sulfur (which is more electronegative) and then 3 bonds with the oxygens. Is this not correct?

And for the number 2 labeled Nitrogen, I would have calculated the oxidation state to be -3 since it is bonded to three carbons which are less electronegative.

When figuring out the chiral center configurations I'm not getting the same answers as given either, and I'm assuming this has to do with my understanding of priorities.

For example, the bottom right carbon of attached to the OH group, I would have given R configuration because the carbon to the right of this chiral center is attached to an O and an N whereas the other carbon is attached to an O and a C. So the OH group would get priority 1, the carbon to the right priority 2, and the carbon to the left priority 3. This would give a counter clockwise motion, but since the hydrogen is coming out of the page I would flip it to R configuration instead of S.


Am I wrong?
 
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OS of Phosphorous = +5
OS of Nitrogen = -2. It is only bonded to 2 Carbon Atoms, as far as I can see the molecule.

As for Chiral centre, lookout for sp3 hybrid C-atom (C with 4 valencies) and make sure that all of the 4 valencies are unique. Also, to determine the configuration, try making their Fisher Projection. It is tough, but try it once.
 
Puchinita5 said:
And for the number 2 labeled Nitrogen, I would have calculated the oxidation state to be -3 since it is bonded to three carbons which are less electronegative.
That's what I get too. Actually you should say it is bonded to carbon three times rather than to three carbons.

Puchinita5 said:
For example, the bottom right carbon of attached to the OH group, I would have given R configuration because the carbon to the right of this chiral center is attached to an O and an N whereas the other carbon is attached to an O and a C. So the OH group would get priority 1, the carbon to the right priority 2, and the carbon to the left priority 3. This would give a counter clockwise motion, but since the hydrogen is coming out of the page I would flip it to R configuration instead of S.

C > N
 
Chemisttree, are you saying that carbon attached to an O and C should have higher priority because C is higher priority than Nitrogen? I thought highest priority is given to atoms with higher atomic weight, and Nitrogen has a greater atomic weight than carbon.
 
C > N is wrong. You have it right and the answer should be R.
 

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