Non polar molecule with polar bonds?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of polarity in molecules, particularly focusing on nonpolar molecules that contain polar bonds. Participants explore examples such as carbon dioxide and methane, examining how molecular geometry influences overall polarity despite the presence of polar bonds. The context includes theoretical considerations, multiple-choice questions, and implications for infrared (IR) spectroscopy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that while individual C=O bonds in carbon dioxide are polar due to electronegativity differences, the overall molecule is nonpolar because of its linear geometry and electron sharing.
  • Others argue that the polarity of a molecule is more influenced by its geometry than by the polarity of its individual bonds, citing carbon tetrafluoride as an example where highly polar CF bonds result in a nonpolar molecule due to symmetry.
  • A participant mentions that the CH bond in methane is close to nonpolar, but questions arise about its classification in the context of multiple-choice questions.
  • Some participants discuss the oscillation of bond polarity in carbon dioxide and its implications for understanding molecular behavior in IR spectroscopy.
  • There are inquiries about the existence of polar bonds that are weakly IR active due to the nature of their dipole moments and their derivatives with respect to bond length.
  • Participants explore the conditions under which certain polar bonds in polyatomic molecules may be IR inactive due to symmetry considerations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the classification of bonds and the overall polarity of molecules. There is no consensus on the implications of bond polarity for molecular behavior, particularly in the context of IR activity.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on molecular geometry and symmetry, as well as unresolved questions about the behavior of dipole moments in relation to bond length. The discussion also highlights the complexity of interpreting molecular polarity in different contexts.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and professionals interested in molecular chemistry, particularly those exploring the concepts of polarity, molecular geometry, and spectroscopy.

  • #31
  • Informative
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  • #32
TeethWhitener said:
We seem to be going in circles. It makes as much sense as you want it to. Using CCl4 as an example, it’s clear that electron density is nonuniform and higher near the Cl nuclei than the C nucleus. So treating each C-Cl bond by itself (and excluding the other Cl’s), there is clearly a dipole moment, although making this quantitative is a lot of work (see Bader’s atoms in molecules). It serves as a useful approximation/heuristic, especially in certain applications. To take another example: the normal modes of CH3Cl (chloromethane) that involve Cl and C can be expected to have a much higher oscillator strength than those that mainly involve only C and H, which is reflected in the IR spectrum. But again, this is an approximation, as any normal mode will likely contain contributions from all the atoms in the molecule.
Thanks for your patience - greatly appreciated. I think I am generally out of my depth here but scouring some (intimidating) references on Mullikan populations, I came across the following set of graphs which (if (big if!) I interpret correctly) is quite telling in respect of carbon tetrachloride. +- 0 charge on Carbon atom ?!

1676652004446.png

1676652087331.png
 
  • #34
This is probably as close as you’re going to get for what you want. Bader’s AIM might also be worth a look. Mulliken population analysis looks specifically at the populations of the atomic orbitals in the basis set used to build up the molecular orbitals, so again, this is a particular way of divvying up which electron density belongs to which atom (i.e., it’s up to you to decide what the nature of those atomic orbitals is and how many of them to include). As I said, it’s an approximation, since in reality all the electrons “belong” to all the atoms (atomic orbitals don’t really exist by themselves in a molecule), and different approximations will give different answers.
 
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  • #35
neilparker62 said:
If measurement of the polarity of single bonds is effectively impossible, under what pretext can we claim that there are "polar covalent bonds in a non polar molecule" ? Even in ##CCl_4## let alone ##CH_4##. Other than by recourse to subtraction of electronegativities which may not validly represent the physics of the shared electron pairs in the molecule as a whole.
Today, it is possible to map the electron distribution in molecules precisely using highly resolved X-ray diffraction methods. NMR shifts also yield information about electronic density on the individual atoms. Polarity of the bonds in symmetric molecules gives rise to non-vanishing higher multipole moments, e.g. a high quadrupole moment in CO2. We are not living in the nineteenth century.
 
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