Partial derivative used in Calc of Variation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of partial derivatives in the context of the calculus of variations, specifically in relation to Taylor's Classical Mechanics. Participants explore the differentiation of the action integral and the implications of notation used in the derivation process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion regarding the application of the chain rule in the differentiation of the action integral, particularly in the transition from the expression involving ##\frac{\partial f}{\partial \alpha}## to the expression involving the derivatives with respect to ##y## and ##y'##.
  • One participant suggests that Taylor's notation is misleading, as he uses ##y## and ##y'## to represent different concepts without clear distinction, which could lead to misunderstandings.
  • Another participant proposes changing the notation to ##u_{1}## and ##u_{2}## for clarity, indicating that this could help in understanding the relationship between the variables involved in the calculus of variations.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of setting ##\alpha=0## in the context of finding stationary trajectories, with some participants noting that this is a crucial aspect of Hamilton's principle.
  • One participant questions whether Taylor's approach could be considered an oversight, suggesting that the distinction between the variables could have been maintained for clarity.
  • Another participant reflects on how different texts handle the notation and derivation, noting that some maintain the distinction throughout while others do not.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the confusion surrounding the notation and the implications of the differentiation process, but there are differing views on whether Taylor's approach is acceptable or if it constitutes an oversight. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best way to handle the notation and the implications of Hamilton's principle.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the potential for misunderstanding due to the reuse of variables and the lack of clarity in notation. There is also mention of the need for careful consideration of the conditions under which the derivatives are evaluated.

ibkev
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I'm working through the discussion of calculus of variations in Taylor's Classical Mechanics today. There's a step where partial differentiation is involved that I don't understand.

Given:
$$S(\alpha)=\int_{x_1}^{x_2} f(y+\alpha\eta, y'+\alpha\eta', x)\,dx$$

The goal is to determine ##y(x)## when the derivative of ##S(\alpha)=0## and ensure that ##\alpha=0## at this point.

So this means:
$$\frac {dS(\alpha)} {d\alpha}=\int_{x_1}^{x_2} \frac {\partial f} {\partial \alpha}\,dx=0$$

and now here is the step that I don't understand. It's apparently an application of the chain rule but I'm just not seeing it...
$$\frac {dS(\alpha)} {d\alpha}=\int_{x_1}^{x_2} \left( \eta\frac {\partial f} {\partial y}+\eta'\frac {\partial f} {\partial y'} \right)\,dx=0$$

Suggestions are appreciated! :)
 
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ibkev said:
I'm working through the discussion of calculus of variations in Taylor's Classical Mechanics today. There's a step where partial differentiation is involved that I don't understand.

Given:
$$S(\alpha)=\int_{x_1}^{x_2} f(y+\alpha\eta, y'+\alpha\eta', x)\,dx$$

The goal is to determine ##y(x)## when both the derivative of ##S(\alpha)=0## and ensure that ##\alpha=0## at this point.

So this means:
$$\frac {dS(\alpha)} {d\alpha}=\int_{x_1}^{x_2} \frac {\partial f} {\partial \alpha}\,dx=0$$

and now here is the step that I don't understand. It's apparently an application of the chain rule but I'm just not seeing it...
$$\frac {dS(\alpha)} {d\alpha}=\int_{x_1}^{x_2} \left( \eta\frac {\partial f} {\partial y}+\eta'\frac {\partial f} {\partial y'} \right)\,dx=0$$

Suggestions are appreciated! :)

First, Taylor is being a bit lazy (although in a conventional way) and using ##y## and ##y'## to stand for two different things. In ##\frac {\partial f} {\partial y}##, he's using ##y## as the first argument of the the function ##f## and, likewise, ##y'## as its second argument.

But, the arguments are not simply ##y## and ##y'## so technically some additional notation is required.

There's a previous post here for the same question:

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/euler-lagrange-derivation-taylor-series.852364/#post-5350620
 
The integrand f is a function of two variables ##y## and ##y'##. The notation used is a little confusing because you end up re-using the same variables ##y## and ##y'## to describe the unperturbed trajectory and its unperturbed velocity.

To make it a little easier to see what's going on, you can change the notation a bit. Let ##u_{1}## and ##u_{2}## be coordinates for the position and velocity of a trajectory (any trajectory), and reserve the functions ##y(x)## and ##y'(x)## for a trajectory which makes the action integral S stationary. That makes f be a function of ##u_{1}## and ##u_{2}## in general, so it's written ##f(u_{1},u_{2})## in the new notation. That's how the chain rule comes into play. You want to find the trajectory ##(u_{1},u_{2}) = (y,y')##. You get the expression for ##S(\alpha)## by substituting ##(u_{1},u_{2}) = (y + \alpha \eta, y' + \alpha \eta')##. The final expression really says: $$\frac{dS(\alpha)}{d\alpha} = \int_{x_1}^{x_2} (\eta \frac{\partial f}{\partial u_{1}} + \eta' \frac{\partial f}{\partial u_{2}})dx$$
 
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Ah ok - I'm starting to make sense of this now. Thanks!

The thing I find strange about how Taylor does this is that he actually sets up the problem at first similar to the ##(u_1, u_2)## in Twigg's post but calls them ##(Y, Y')## and then deliberately drops them.

He writes:
$$\begin{align}
S(\alpha)&=\int_{x_1}^{x_2} f(Y, Y', x),dx \\
&=\int_{x_1}^{x_2} f(y+\alpha\eta, y'+\alpha\eta', x),dx
\end{align}$$
But then he next writes:
$$\frac {\partial} {\partial\alpha} f(y+\alpha\eta, y'+\alpha\eta', x) =\eta\frac {\partial f} {\partial y} + \eta'\frac {\partial f} {\partial y'}$$
Do I understand right that he actually means for that previous equation to say:
$$\frac {\partial} {\partial\alpha} f(Y, Y' x)=\eta\frac {\partial f} {\partial Y} + \eta'\frac {\partial f} {\partial Y'}$$

>Taylor is being a bit lazy (although in a conventional way)
Honestly it seems like it should be an errata, no?
 
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ibkev said:
Do I understand right that he actually means for that previous equation to say:
∂∂αf(Y,Y′x)=η∂f∂Y+η′∂f∂Y′​

Yeah, this is what he means, but it's also implied that ##Y = y + \alpha \eta## inside the argument of the function f. The variables ##Y## and ##Y'## represent coordinates in a geometric space whose axes are the position and velocity of the trajectory, so the substitution ##(Y,Y') = (y + \alpha \eta, y' + \alpha \eta')## is just a way of parametrizing that space the same way we could parametrize ordinary 3D space with ##\vec{r} = \vec{r_{0}} + \alpha \vec{u}## where ##\vec{u}## is an undetermined unit vector. In that picture, the expression you mentioned and I quoted above is just the directional derivative of f along the "direction" ##(\eta, \eta')## in the ##Y##-##Y'## plane.

I think Taylor intentionally dropped the Y,Y' notation because he probably didn't want to detract from the important points of this optimization procedure by making the theoretical distinction between y and Y, at the expense of confusing more cautious readers. While his notation is mathematically misleading, it still works and is a convenient shorthand.
 
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That's a way of looking at it that I hadn't considered - thanks.

Incidentally, I checked how the Morin Classical Mechanics text does it and he carries the Y, Y' through to the very end (although he calls them ##(y_\alpha, y_\alpha')## and only then does he replace them with y, y' (albeit magically and without any explanation.)

After thinking about this, I came up with another way to look at this from the fact that there are TWO goals of our solution not one:
  1. solve ##\frac {dS(\alpha)} {d\alpha}=0## to find the local minimum
  2. require that ##\alpha=0## at that point as well
So the final step of the derivation recognizes that although we defined ##(Y,Y') = (y + \alpha \eta, y' + \alpha \eta')##, setting ##\alpha=0## at the end as our problem requires, results in ##(Y,Y')=(y,y')##

Does that seem like a reasonable way to look at it as well?
 
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You are correct, and if you hadn't mentioned it I would've missed a second oversight in Taylor's math. Hamilton's principle does not say $$\frac{dS_{\alpha}}{d\alpha} = 0$$. That would would mean that all functions of the form ##y + \alpha \eta## where ##y## is a trajectory that makes the action integral stationary, are all stationary trajectories. What Hamilton's principle really says is this: $$\frac{dS_{\alpha}}{d\alpha}|_{\alpha = 0} = 0$$. In other words, it says that ##y## is the stationary trajectory, not just any trajectory of the form ##y + \alpha \eta##.
 
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