Partial differential: partial scalar partial vector

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of a specific type of partial differential, namely the differentiation of a scalar function with respect to a vector, particularly in the context of directional derivatives and normal vectors. Participants explore the mathematical implications and definitions related to this concept.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Andreas inquires about the meaning of the expression dF/dn, where F is a scalar and n is a normal vector, expressing confusion over the lack of literature on the topic.
  • One participant asserts that it is not valid to have a derivative of a scalar with respect to a vector, suggesting instead the use of ∂F/∂n or d(F.n^)/dn, where n^ is a unit vector in the normal direction.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of directional derivatives, stating that the rate of change of F in the direction of a vector V can be expressed using the gradient of F and the unit vector in the direction of V.
  • Andreas acknowledges the clarification provided by the participants, noting that the rate of F in the direction of a unit vector normal to a surface is what he was seeking to understand.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the initial formulation of the derivative dF/dn, with some participants challenging its validity while others provide alternative interpretations. The discussion reflects a mix of agreement on the concept of directional derivatives and differing views on the original expression.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of using a unit vector for n, indicating that the interpretation of the derivative may depend on this condition. There are also unresolved aspects regarding the definitions and mathematical steps involved in the differentiation process.

Havik
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Hi,

I have a problem to find the meaning of a special partial differential: partial scalar partial vector.

i.e. dF/dn where F is a scalar and n is a i.e. normal vector. This is a partial diff.

n could be a vector consisting of partial differentials, (dT/dx,dT/dy)

I have looked in literature but found nothing.

Can someone help me?

Thank you very much
/Andreas
 
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Welcome to PF!

Hi Andreas! Welcome to PF! :smile:

(have a curly d: ∂ :wink:)
Havik said:
I have a problem to find the meaning of a special partial differential: partial scalar partial vector.

i.e. dF/dn where F is a scalar and n is a i.e. normal vector. This is a partial diff.

n could be a vector consisting of partial differentials, (dT/dx,dT/dy)

No such thing … you can't have d(scalar)/d(vector) or ∂(scalar)/∂(vector). :wink:

But (for example, when calculating flux) you can have ∂F/∂n or d(F.n^)/dn, where n^ is the unit vector in the normal direction, and n is the distance in that direction. :smile:
 
Havik said:
Hi,

I have a problem to find the meaning of a special partial differential: partial scalar partial vector.

i.e. dF/dn where F is a scalar and n is a i.e. normal vector. This is a partial diff.

n could be a vector consisting of partial differentials, (dT/dx,dT/dy)

I have looked in literature but found nothing.

Can someone help me?

Thank you very much
/Andreas

Perhaps you are thinking about directional derivatives. If F(x,y,z) is a scalar function (perhaps the temperature at (x,y,z)), and V is a vector, then the rate of change of F in the direction of V is:

[tex]\frac {\partial F}{\partial \hat v} = D_{\hat v}(F) = \nabla F \cdot \hat V[/tex]

where [tex]\hat V[/tex] is a unit vector in the direction of V.
 
Hi tiny-tim and LCKurtz,

This is exactly the explanation I am looking for! I had a hard time to understand the meaning of such partial derivative. And it with [tex]\partial[/tex] it should be :smile:

It is the rate of F in the direction of some unit vector n that is normal to an arbitrary surface. I have no problem to find the growth rate of F in x and y but when it came to a other direction depending on other things, it became a problem. But now I understand how to do it!

I actually did not think of the thing that n must be a unit vector. I will make it a unit vector!

Thank you very much for your help on this problem, I have been struggling to find the answer for a long time!
 

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