Partial Differentiation in Lagrange's Equations

In summary, the conversation discusses the use of the chain rule of differentiation to calculate the time derivative of a function with multiple dependencies. This is demonstrated through the example of finding the derivative of x with respect to q and t, and the resulting equation (7.108). The conversation also mentions the use of the chain rule in proving equation (7.101).
  • #1
sams
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In Section 7.6 - Equivalence of Lagrange's and Newton's Equations in the Classical Dynamics of Particles and Systems book by Thornton and Marion, pages 255 and 256, introduces the following transformation from the xi-coordinates to the generalized coordinates qj in Equation (7.99):

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My questions are mathematical rather than physical questions.

1. Could anyone please explain to me how did the Author make the derivative of x in Equation (7.100) and expanded the time derivative of x in the last term of Equation (7.108)?

2. Is there any mathematical relation of the partial derivatives used for the above two cases?

Your help is much appreciated. Thanks a lot...
 

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  • #2
Both situations involve application of the chain rule of differentiation.
$$\dot {x}=\frac{d}{dt}x(q,t)=\frac{\partial x}{\partial q}\frac{\partial q}{\partial t}+\frac{\partial x}{\partial t}=\frac{\partial x}{\partial q}\dot q+\frac{\partial x}{\partial t}$$
 
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  • #3
Where did the second term ∂x/∂t came from?
 
  • #4
sams said:
Where did the second term ∂x/∂t came from?
Perhaps a simple concrete example would be appropriate at this point because it looks like you are confused about what a total derivative means.
Suppose ##x(q,t) = 3q^2t## where ##q=t^4##. What is ##\dot x##?
Answer I (according to the rule I gave you)
$$\dot x= \frac{\partial x}{\partial q}\dot q+\frac{\partial x}{\partial t}=3 (2q)t\dot q+3q^2 =3 (2t^4)t4t^3+3t^8=27t^8$$Answer II (replacing ##q=t^4## in the original expression)
$$\dot x= \frac{d x}{dt}[3(t^8)t]=27t^8$$Clearly the answers would not match if one dropped the ##\frac{\partial x}{\partial t}## term in Answer I.
 
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  • #5
sams said:
Where did the second term ∂x/∂t came from?
The same place as the others. The chain rule says that if you have a function ##f(q_1,q_2,...,q_n)## where the ##q_i## are functions of ##t## then the derivative of ##f## with respect to ##t## is $$\frac{df}{dt}=\frac{\partial f}{\partial q_1}\frac{dq_1}{dt}+\frac{\partial f}{\partial q_2}\frac{dq_2}{dt}+...+\frac{\partial f}{\partial q_n}\frac{dq_n}{dt}$$You seem comfortable with that (I've just expanded the sum in 7.100). Now what if ##q_n(t)=t##? Which is to say, what if the function ##f## has (n-1) dependencies on functions ##q_j## and one explicit dependence on ##t##, as your ##x_i(q_j,t)## functions do? In that case, the last term simplifies to ##\partial f/\partial t##. That's all that's going on.
 
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Thanks a lot! That was very helpful...

The second term in Equation (7.101) is not equal to zero, how did we prove this equation? Is there any certain rule in Mathematics for this relation?
 
  • #7
sams said:
Thanks a lot! That was very helpful...

The second term in Equation (7.101) is not equal to zero, how did we prove this equation? Is there any certain rule in Mathematics for this relation?
It's the chain rule of differentiation. You must have proved it in calculus I.
If you have a function ##f(u,v)## then
$$\frac{df(u,v)}{dt}=\frac{\partial f}{\partial u}\frac{\partial u}{\partial t}+\frac{\partial f}{\partial v}\frac{\partial v}{\partial t}$$
What do you get when ##v=t##?
 
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  • #8
sams said:
The second term in Equation (7.101) is not equal to zero, how did we prove this equation? Is there any certain rule in Mathematics for this relation?
I think the point is that nothing on the RHS of 7.100 has any explicit dependence on ##\dot{q_i}## except ##\dot{q_i}## itself. So the partial derivatives of every term with respect to ##\dot{q_i}## are zero except for the one term where ##j=i##, which gives you 7.101.
 
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1. What is partial differentiation in Lagrange's equations?

Partial differentiation in Lagrange's equations is a mathematical technique used to analyze and solve problems in mechanics and physics. It involves taking the partial derivative of a function with respect to one of its variables while holding the other variables constant. This allows for the study of how a system changes with respect to one specific variable.

2. Why is partial differentiation important in Lagrange's equations?

Partial differentiation is important in Lagrange's equations because it allows for the simplification and optimization of complex equations. By taking partial derivatives, it is possible to reduce a multi-variable function into one or more single-variable functions, making it easier to solve and analyze.

3. What is the difference between partial differentiation and total differentiation?

The main difference between partial differentiation and total differentiation is the number of variables being considered. Partial differentiation involves taking the derivative of a function with respect to one variable while holding the other variables constant. Total differentiation, on the other hand, involves taking the derivative with respect to all variables in the function.

4. How is partial differentiation used in Lagrange's equations?

In Lagrange's equations, partial differentiation is used to find the critical points of a system, which are the points where the system is in equilibrium. By setting the partial derivatives of the system's energy function to zero, the critical points can be identified and used to solve for the equations of motion.

5. Can partial differentiation be applied to any type of function in Lagrange's equations?

Yes, partial differentiation can be applied to any type of function in Lagrange's equations, including non-linear and multi-variable functions. This is one of the major advantages of using Lagrange's equations, as it allows for the analysis and optimization of a wide range of systems, from simple to highly complex.

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