Pentagon Gags Aussies: US Free Society Double-Standards

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  • Thread starter Thread starter Nommos Prime (Dogon)
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of freedom of speech in the context of U.S. policies, particularly regarding the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo Bay and the perceived hypocrisy of the U.S. government in criticizing other nations for lack of due process. Participants explore the implications of these issues on civil liberties and the nature of free speech.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the U.S. claims of a "free society" are undermined by its actions, particularly regarding the treatment of detainees and the lack of due process.
  • Others suggest that freedom of speech is not absolute and has limitations, citing examples of unprotected speech types such as hate speech and slander.
  • A participant expresses mixed feelings about the necessity of detaining individuals in a time of war, while also emphasizing the need for due process and independent auditing of such detentions.
  • There is a challenge to the notion that the Bush Administration has been hypocritical in its criticisms of other countries, with requests for specific quotes or evidence to support such claims.
  • Some participants assert that the definition of free speech is selective and that certain views are favored over others, questioning the integrity of those who claim to support free speech.
  • References to Noam Chomsky are made, with differing opinions on his credibility and the validity of his arguments regarding free speech and political discourse.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of freedom of speech, its limitations, and the actions of the U.S. government. There is no consensus on these issues, and the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the topic, noting that definitions of free speech and the implications of government actions can vary widely. The discussion reflects a mix of personal beliefs, interpretations of legal principles, and political critiques.

  • #91
pelastration said:
When you detain individuals during a 'War against Terror' ... are they POW's?

I think this actually is a whole nother can o' worms. Their status as POW"S depends on whether they fit within the outlines that I listed above. They don't stop being POW's because of the type of war it is. The issue arises when you have a war that is not against a state, and in which an end is not neccesarily easily defined. POW's can be held until the war ceases without charges as they are not being held for criminal purposes but to prevent them from further fighting in the war. Normally once a halt to the war has been called they would be released/returned.
 
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  • #92
selfAdjoint said:
The Supreme Court has (unwisely as I believe) extended the term "war" and the legal strictures associated with it to whatever the president asserts, rather than the constitutional meaning, which can only be declared by an act of Congress.

Uhhh..not exactly, again I suggest you look at past precedence.
 
  • #93
Thanks, kat - you picked up nicely where I left off. I had a busy weekend.

Njorl - you have a good point. I don't think there is any precident (national or international) on that though. How exactly would you go about asserting Geneva Convention protection? The Red Cross has been into see these guys. Did anyone attempt to assert POW status then? Perhaps by showing their Geneva Convention ID cards...?

I don't think many of those guys have a leg to stand on when it comes to asserting status. To clarify my position though, I would much prefer that satus hearings/trials be held quickly.
 
  • #94
More on ID cards. HERE is the complete text of the 3rd Geneva Convention (revised 1949). Article 17 states:
Each Party to a conflict is required to furnish the persons under its jurisdiction who are liable to become prisoners of war, with an identity card showing the owner's surname, first names, rank, army, regimental, personal or serial number or equivalent information, and date of birth. The identity card may, furthermore, bear the signature or the fingerprints, or both, of the owner, and may bear, as well, any other information the Party to the conflict may wish to add concerning persons belonging to its armed forces. As far as possible the card shall measure 6.5 x 10 cm. and shall be issued in duplicate. The identity card shall be shown by the prisoner of war upon demand, but may in no case be taken away from him.
Clearly, this complicates any claim that the people at 'Gitmo should be afforded POW status.
 
  • #95
Note...I specificly asked for the source of your definition of "regular armed forces".
Regular armed forces are members of a conventional military organisation serving a command structure which may or may not be recognised by the detaining power.

Abductees
LalaLalaLala
You are familiar with something called the English lanaguage, yes? "Abductee" is a noun. The plural form is "abductees".
 

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