Perfect Sets in R^k are uncountable

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of Theorem 2.43 from Walter Rudin's "Principles of Mathematical Analysis," specifically addressing the uncountability of perfect sets in $$R^k$$. Participants are examining the construction of neighborhoods in the context of the theorem and the implications of certain statements made by Rudin.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter expresses confusion about the necessity of ensuring that $$V_n \cap P$$ is non-empty, questioning whether it is implied by the construction of neighborhoods as described by Rudin.
  • Some participants clarify that Rudin is constructing specific neighborhoods (often referred to as balls) around points $$x_i$$, which should intersect with the perfect set $$P$$.
  • Another participant points out that by definition, all points in a perfect set are limit points, suggesting that any neighborhood of these points will intersect with $$P$$.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of open sets in $$\Bbb{R}^{k}$$ and how they can be represented as unions of balls, which relates to the neighborhoods being discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical definitions involved, such as the nature of limit points and open sets. However, there remains a disagreement regarding the interpretation of Rudin's wording about the construction of neighborhoods and the necessity of ensuring they intersect with the perfect set.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the proof relies on the properties of limit points and the topology of $$\Bbb{R}^{k}$$, which may introduce assumptions about the nature of neighborhoods and intersections that are not explicitly stated in Rudin's text.

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I am reading Walter Rudin's book, Principles of Mathematical Analysis.

Currently I am studying Chapter 2:"Basic Topology".

I am concerned that I do not fully understand the proof of Theorem 2.43 concerning the uncountability of perfect sets in $$R^k$$.

Rudin, Theorem 2.43 reads as follows:
View attachment 3806

In the above proof, Rudin writes:

"Let $$V_1$$ be any neighbourhood of $$x_1$$. If $$V_1$$ consists of all $$y \in R^k$$ such that $$| y - x_1 | \lt r$$, the closure $$\overline{V_1}$$ of $$V_1$$ is the set of all $$y \in R^k$$ such that $$| y - x_1 | \le r$$."

Now, I am assuming that the above two sentences that I have quoted from Rudin's proof are a recipe or formula to be followed in constructing $$V_2, V_3, V_4$$, and so on ... ... is that right?

I will assume that is the case and proceed ...

Rudin, then writes:

"Suppose $$V_n$$ has been constructed, so that $$V_n \cap P$$ is not empty ... ... "My question is as follows:

Why does Rudin explicitly mention that he requires $$V_n$$ to be constructed so that $$V_n \cap P$$ is not empty?

Surely if $$V_n$$ is constructed in just the same way as $$V_1$$ then $$V_n$$ is a neighbourhood of $$x_n$$ ... ... and therefore we are assured that $$V_n \cap P$$ is not empty ... ... aren't we? ... ... and so there is no need to mention that $$V_n$$ needs to be constructed in a way to assure this ...

Can someone please clarify this issue ...

Hope someone can help ...

Peter
 
Last edited:
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Hi Peter,

Rudin is constructing some specific neighborhood for those $x_{i}$. (Usually called $B(x_{i},r_{i})$, balls of center $x_{i}$ and radius $r_{i}$).

What he says next is , suppose $V_{n}$ is constructed in this way, then $V_{n}\cap P$ is non empty
 
Fallen Angel said:
Hi Peter,

Rudin is constructing some specific neighborhood for those $x_{i}$. (Usually called $B(x_{i},r_{i})$, balls of center $x_{i}$ and radius $r_{i}$).

What he says next is , suppose $V_{n}$ is constructed in this way, then $V_{n}\cap P$ is non empty
Thanks for the help, Fallen Angel ...

But ... I must say I still have a problem, I think, ... because Rudin does not say:

"If $$V_n$$ has been so constructed then $$V_n \cap P$$ is not empty"He says:

"Suppose $$V_n$$ has been constructed so that $$V_n \cap P$$ is not empty"

which seems to me that $$V_n$$ has to be constructed in a specific way to assure that $$V_n \cap P$$ is not empty.

What do you think?

Peter

***NOTE***

Although I differ in my interpretation of Rudin's sentence ... I suspect that you are correct given the 'facts' of the mathematics ...
 
Last edited:
Hi Peter,

Reading again my post I think it wasn't clear.

By definition, all this are limit points, so for any neighborhood $V_{n}$ of $x_{n}$ we have $V_{n}\cap P\neq \emptyset$.

Now in $\Bbb{R}^{k}$ the balls form a basis for the usual topology, which means that every open set can be written as a countable union of balls.

A set $U\subseteq\Bbb{R}^{k}$ being open means that for every $u\in U$ exists a radius $r_{u}$ such that $u\in B(u,r_{u})\subseteq U$.

Then in the proof we can consider balls centered at the points $x_{1},x_{2},\ldots$ as neighborhoods.
 

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