Perpetua mobile theoretical misunderstanding

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theoretical misunderstandings related to perpetual motion machines, specifically focusing on a scenario involving a metal ball on a track influenced by a tubular permanent magnet. Participants explore the implications of magnetic forces and the conditions under which the ball would be accelerated.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario where a metal ball is accelerated by a permanent magnet as it passes through a tube, questioning the theoretical basis for this idea.
  • Another participant asserts that the tube will not accelerate the ball around the track and suggests that the ball would be attracted back to the tube after leaving it.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the relationship between magnetic force and the ball's velocity, particularly when the ball is stationary and there is no electric field present.
  • There is a mention of the possibility of shielding the magnetic field to confine its effects to the inside of the tube, raising further questions about the feasibility of such an arrangement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; there are competing views regarding the behavior of the ball in relation to the magnetic field and the concept of perpetual motion machines remains contested.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the conservative nature of magnetic fields but do not resolve the implications of this property on the proposed scenario. There are also unresolved questions about the conditions under which the magnetic force would act on the ball.

joao_pimentel
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Hello

I was patent examiner on the Portuguese patent office for 3 years and we have a lot of perpetua mobile applications, so I wanted to find now, the theoretical misunderstanding I'm missing here

attachment.php?attachmentid=60799&stc=1&d=1376122111.png


Imagine you have a track (on a table, on the xOy plane) on which a metal ball would follow, and at a certain length of the track, there would be a tubular permanent magnet, that would create a force on the ball accelerating it. That ball would be accelerated every time it passes through the tube!

I know that there is some paradox on my lemma, but I can't find where

Thank you in advance

PS: Actually I know that the magnetic field is conservative, but something is missing
 

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The tube will not accelerate the ball around the track. I'm not sure what will happen inside the tube since the flux is so uniform, but once the ball leaves the tube it will be attracted right back to it.
 
That's what I can't understand because every time I see images of magnetic field I see this

310px-Earths_Magnetic_Field_Confusion.svg.png


By the way, I know that the force is F=q(E + v\times B)

But how to relate the Force created by the magnetic field of a permenant magnet if the ball is stopped, v=0, and there is no Electric field

You said the ball would came back, but can't we shield the field, so the field just applies inside the tube.

Sorry, too many questions
 
Last edited:
Sorry, but we do not discuss perpetual motion machines on PF.
 

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