Photon Elapsed Time Equation: Calculating 24hrs

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of time as experienced by a photon traveling from Earth into space and back, specifically addressing how much time would elapse on Earth during this journey. The scope includes theoretical implications of relativity and the nature of time measurement in different frames of reference.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that a photon can travel at its constant speed without the limitations faced by massive objects, suggesting that it experiences 24 hours of elapsed time during its journey.
  • Another participant counters that time cannot be measured for a photon, as it does not exist in an inertial frame, and that the proper time along a light-like world line is defined as zero.
  • A third participant reiterates the impossibility of measuring time from the photon's perspective, emphasizing that it will never experience any elapsed time regardless of the distance traveled.
  • Further clarification is provided that the concept of proper time does not apply to massless objects like photons, indicating that certain operations relevant to massive objects do not translate to massless ones.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the interpretation of time experienced by a photon, with some asserting that it can experience time while others maintain that it cannot. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these differing viewpoints.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of time measurement and the implications of relativistic physics on massless particles. The interpretations of proper time and inertial frames are central to the debate.

Doc Marino
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Following the premise of Einstein, man cannot travel at light speed due to the overwhelming increase in mass during the hypothetical attempt. However, a photon has no such limitation... it travels at it's constant. Therefore, if a photon travels from the surface of the Earth into space (barring any possible variances from interference of any kind against it's constant), traveling outward for exactly 12 hours, then instantly reversing course and returning to the surface of the Earth (24 hours elapsed time measured at the photon), how much measured time will have elapsed on the surface of the earth?
 
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You cannot measure the time elapsed for the photon, it is not in an inertial frame. If anything, you could compute the proper time of a light-like world line, which will give you zero by definition.
 
Doc Marino said:
...if a photon travels from the surface of the Earth into space (barring any possible variances from interference of any kind against it's constant), traveling outward for exactly 12 hours, then instantly reversing course and returning to the surface of the Earth (24 hours elapsed time measured at the photon), how much measured time will have elapsed on the surface of the earth?

There is no such thing as time measured at the photon. There's an FAQ entry here: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/rest-frame-of-a-photon.511170/

[Edit: Rats! It looks like Orodruin beat me to it! No fair! He didn't stop to look up the URL of the FAQ! :)]
 
Doc Marino said:
Following the premise of Einstein, man cannot travel at light speed due to the overwhelming increase in mass during the hypothetical attempt. However, a photon has no such limitation... it travels at it's constant. Therefore, if a photon travels from the surface of the Earth into space (barring any possible variances from interference of any kind against it's constant), traveling outward for exactly 12 hours, then instantly reversing course and returning to the surface of the Earth (24 hours elapsed time measured at the photon), how much measured time will have elapsed on the surface of the earth?
Hi Doc Marino, welcome to PF!

In technical language, I would interpret the phrase "time measured at X" to be "the proper time along X's worldline". This value is always 0, as was mentioned by Orodruin, meaning that it doesn't matter how long or how far the photon travels, it will never travel far enough to have even 1 nano-second "measured at the photon", let alone 12 hours.

Note, because of the consequences of the issue mentioned by Nugatory, it is problematic to interpret the length of a photon's worldline as a proper time. So even that interpretation of the phrase is a little sketchy when applied to a photon. I think that at some level you just have to recognize that certain operations which can be done on massive objects simply do not apply for massless objects.
 

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