Photon Rest Mass: How We Know & Mass While Moving

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of photon mass, specifically addressing whether photons have rest mass and what their mass is while in motion at the speed of light. Participants explore theoretical implications, experimental evidence, and the definitions of mass in the context of photons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that photons have no rest mass because they cannot be at rest, rendering the question meaningless.
  • Others argue that while photons are massless in terms of rest mass, they possess relativistic mass when in motion, defined by their energy divided by c².
  • One participant references the relationship between energy, momentum, and mass through the equation E² = (pc)² + (m₀c²)², noting that for photons, E = pc.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of photon absorption by atoms, with some suggesting that the mass increase of the atom could represent the rest mass of the photon, while others clarify that the photon ceases to exist upon absorption.
  • Several participants express confusion regarding the application of mass equations to photons, particularly the implications of using m₀ = 0 in relativistic equations.
  • Some participants highlight that all experimental data supports the hypothesis that photons are massless, while others caution that this remains a theoretical assertion.
  • There is a debate over the definitions and implications of momentum in quantum mechanics, with references to Planck's constant and the wave-particle duality of photons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of photon mass. While some agree on the massless nature of photons in terms of rest mass, others present competing views regarding relativistic mass and the implications of photon absorption.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include unresolved mathematical interpretations, varying definitions of mass, and the dependence on specific theoretical frameworks. Participants express differing views on the applicability of certain equations to photons.

  • #31
When the photon develops a rest mass in a superconductor...

What happens to its relationship to c?
If an electron in the superconductor emits or absorbs a photon, does the photon with rest mass participating in that emission or absorption undergo a period of acceleration or deceleration?
Or is the photon emitted and absorbed instantly at full speed (in this case maybe < c)?

Or, is the photon now not "really" a photon, but something else?
 
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  • #32
Rest mass of Photon is 0.
My Q is: 1- why Photon speed is finite if does have no mass?
2- why light is curved passing Black Hole and if is curved because
warped space-time. (not it's mass) how Black Hole can warp Space-Time.
if Space-Time have no mass?
 
  • #33
Paul Bauza said:
Rest mass of Photon is 0.
My Q is: 1- why Photon speed is finite if does have no mass?
2- why light is curved passing Black Hole and if is curved because
warped space-time. (not it's mass) how Black Hole can warp Space-Time.
if Space-Time have no mass?

The speed of light is simply the universal speed limit. Anything with 0 mass must travel at this speed.

A black hole has lots of mass, and since mass and energy warp spacetime it alters the path of the light passing nearby.
 
  • #34
Both space and time are affected by massive objects so it stands to reason that space/time would be affected by the black hole.

The speed of the photon and its energy are the cause of its emission. After it is emitted Its speed and energy levels are constant due to its velocity.
 
  • #35
Paul Bauza said:
how Black Hole can warp Space-Time.
if Space-Time have no mass?

Matter has energy which causes spacetime curvature. However, spacetime can still be warped if there is no matter, because the equations governing spacetime's interaction with itself are nonlinear.
 
  • #36
aleemudasir said:
How did we come to the conclusion photon has no rest mass? Does photon have any mass(not talking about rest mass) while moving at usual c?
=ozie: Michelson and Moreley's experiment proved that no matter how a mobile point with a speed v is directed to the light source or run away from it, the speed of light is always the same! But the experiment (as the later experiments did) was based on the interfence between an direct light beam and reflected one. In my opinion this experiment has a limit because too small shift of interferences it is possible to escape to power resolution of the device. Some books presented the ideea of an estimated rest mass of photon of 10 to minus 47 kg ( 10-47kg). So we can conclude that the speed of let say 299000 km/s to be not sufficent to have a relativistic mass infinite! To such value it is posible that the shift of interference to be unobservable, the shift to be under the threshold of resoluition of device!
 

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