Photon Standing Wave Phenomenon

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of standing waves in relation to photons, exploring the nature of photons as both particles and waves, and the implications of these properties on the understanding of wave phenomena. Participants engage in clarifying definitions and addressing misconceptions, with references to solitons and classical wave theory.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether photons can be considered standing waves, noting that standing waves are characterized by fixed nodes while photons are always in motion.
  • One participant emphasizes that a photon does not 'wiggle' and that the concept of amplitude relates to the probability of detecting multiple photons rather than the properties of a single photon.
  • There is a discussion about solitons, with some participants asserting that solitons are traveling pulses and questioning their relation to standing waves.
  • Another participant suggests that the wave aspect of a photon could be stationary while the particle aspect moves, prompting further clarification on the nature of photons.
  • Some participants argue that wave and particle descriptions are classical concepts that do not fully capture the behavior of photons in quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classification of photons as standing waves, with no consensus reached on the relationship between photons, standing waves, and solitons. The discussion remains unresolved regarding these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of relating classical wave concepts to quantum particles, indicating that assumptions about wave behavior may not apply directly to photons. There are unresolved definitions and interpretations regarding the nature of standing waves and solitons.

HawkI
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Wikipedia
standing wave
noun
Physics
noun: standing wave; plural noun: standing waves
a vibration of a system in which some particular points remain fixed while others between them vibrate with the maximum amplitude.

_____________________

As a Photon gains or looses energy it's maximum amplitude would change? I've never heard them be referred to standing waves before, I only heard of this kind of wave recently because Microwaves have it.
 
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HawkI said:
Wikipedia
standing wave
noun
Physics
noun: standing wave; plural noun: standing waves
a vibration of a system in which some particular points remain fixed while others between them vibrate with the maximum amplitude.

_____________________

As a Photon gains or looses energy it's maximum amplitude would change? I've never heard them be referred to standing waves before, I only heard of this kind of wave recently because Microwaves have it.
A photon is a quantum particle and a wave is an essentially classical construct. A photon doesn't 'wiggle about' and neither is it a tiny bullet. If you have just one photon (sourced by a single atom) it doesn't constitute a wave. Where the wave idea comes in is that the wave will describe the probability of finding that photon in a particular place. In a standing wave, you will detect many more photons if you put a detector at an antinode than if you put it in a node so the 'amplitude' relates to the number of photons and not the 'size' of a particular photon. It is fruitless to try to tie the two ideas too closely together. It took many decades to get things sorted out in that respect and Physics has moved on.
 
Furthermore, a photon moves, so it is clearly not a standing wave, which is stationary.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Furthermore, a photon moves, so it is clearly not a standing wave, which is stationary.

So, a Soliton can't be a standing wave then?
 
A soliton is a travelling pulse, isn't it?
What are you trying to find out actually with these questions? Do you have something specific in mind?
 
nasu said:
A soliton is a travelling pulse, isn't it?
What are you trying to find out actually with these questions? Do you have something specific in mind?

Nothing in particular, I misunderstood what a soliton was I guess. Just one question too, I'm not OP
 
Oh, sorry. You are not OP, indeed. :)

Solitons are an example o nonlinear waves.
First observed on some canal in UK, as a single pulse moving fast and without changing shape much.
The Wiki entry can tell you more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton
 
nasu said:
Oh, sorry. You are not OP, indeed. :)

Solitons are an example o nonlinear waves.
First observed on some canal in UK, as a single pulse moving fast and without changing shape much.
The Wiki entry can tell you more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton

I see, I completely misunderstood. I'm sorry for my off-topic post, I thought it was on-topic.
 
  • #10
A photon is both a wave and a particle, I thought maybe the wave stands still whilst the particle moves, that's all.
 
  • #11
The photon is neither. Wave and particle are classical concepts which apply only approximately to a photon.
But you can understand a lot about light by studying just classical wave theory.
 
  • #12
HawkI said:
A photon is both a wave and a particle, I thought maybe the wave stands still whilst the particle moves, that's all.
No. A flux of EM energy can be described as a wave and it can also be described in terms of photons; that's not what your statement implies here. I think it is important not to try to look at photons a little wiggly (wavelike) entities; that is just not QM. Use the word photon and you should chuck out pretty well everything you think you know about EM - certainly do not try to come to conclusions by following that path.
 

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