Photon vs the electric field E and magnetic field B

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between photons and the electric field (E) and magnetic field (B) in the context of electrodynamics. Participants explore how photons are related to E and B fields, the implications of oscillating fields, and the nature of causality between these fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that a photon is a pulse of E and B fields traveling through space, suggesting that oscillating electric fields induce oscillating magnetic fields according to Maxwell's equations.
  • Another participant challenges the common belief that there is a causal connection between E and B fields, arguing that both fields share the same derivative order in the wave equation, implying no causality.
  • A further contribution questions how causality can be discerned from decoupled wave equations for E and B fields.
  • Another participant supports the idea that the independence of the wave equations for E and B fields suggests a lack of causal connection.
  • One participant notes that electric and magnetic fields are reference dependent, with different observers potentially perceiving different fields based on their motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the causal relationship between electric and magnetic fields, with some arguing for a connection based on oscillation and others disputing this notion. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature of causality in the context of E and B fields.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various sources, including Jefimenko's work and Griffiths' textbook, to support their arguments, indicating a reliance on specific interpretations of electrodynamics and the wave equations.

xylai
Messages
58
Reaction score
0
In physics, a photon is an elementary particle, the quantum of the electromagnetic interaction and the basic unit of light and all other forms of electromagnetic radiation.
As we know, light can be described by the electric field E and magnetic field B in the classical physics.
Here, I have a question: Based on the picture of photon, how does photon induce the electric field E and magnetic field B?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
It is well known in electrodynamics that a changing electric field causes a changing magnetic field and vice versa. If you created a scheme whereby you created an oscillating electric field, then an orthogonal oscillating magnetic field would also be created, so that you are making photons. The act of the photon existing does not induce its own oscillating E and B field. Rather, if you have an oscillating E field, then an oscillating B field will be created (thus, photons!) according to Maxwell's equations. The same thing happens if you produce an oscillating B field. It could be thought that a photon is a kind of pulse of E and B fields traveling through space at the the speed of light.

If you meant to ask how a photon interacts with other electric/magnetic fields, then we know from the principle of superposition in classical electromagnetism that if a photon is an electromagnetic wave, it will superimpose with the electromagnetic waves in the vicinity. Thus, if there was a charged particle, say, an electron nearby, then it would feel a minute EM disturbance if a photon came close to it.
 
qqkitty said:
It is well known in electrodynamics that a changing electric field causes a changing magnetic field and vice versa.

Actually there is no causality implied between the E and B fields. You may be correct that that is a common belief, but it is a fallacy. Look at the wave equation. A causal connection is implied by a difference in one order of the derivatives between the dependent parameters. Both the E and B fields share the same derivative order.

All of Jefimenko's books contain a rigorous and detailed analysis of that as well as Jackson's "Classical Electrodynamics".
 
PhilDSP said:
Look at the wave equation. A causal connection is implied by a difference in one order of the derivatives between the dependent parameters. Both the E and B fields share the same derivative order.

I thought there was a separate wave equation for the E and B fields: the wave equations for them are decoupled. How is it possible to discern causality from decoupled equations?
 
Yes, the fact that the wave equations can be written for each field independent of the other is also strong evidence for lack of a causal connection, wouldn't you think?

Jefimenko analyzes the fields in terms of current sources and generates time dependent (retarded potential) solutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefimenko's_equations

The article above is very brief and doesn't explain the relation to potentials. One very interesting finding is that he identifies a component in the electric field which is of the same form as the vector potential, except that rather than having freedom of gauge it is a value determined by previous positions of the sources. I think he calls it "retarded vector potential".
 
Electric and Magnetic fields are also somewhat reference dependent.

While one (static) observer sees only an electric field, another (moving) observer may see a magnetic field.

David Griffiths has a very nice example of this in his undergraduate book on Electrodynamics. Chapter 10 on Special Relativity, I think. It's slick, because it uses length contraction, IIRC.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K