Photon-Wave Duality: Why can't they be separated?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the concept of photon-wave duality, with participants questioning the necessity of viewing photons as both particles and waves. Mitty Walters proposes that photons could be considered particles that emit or are surrounded by waves, rather than embodying duality. DrChinese counters this by emphasizing that current theories, such as Quantum Electrodynamics and the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, effectively describe photons without relying on duality. The conversation highlights the importance of mathematical models in understanding quantum phenomena, suggesting that the duality concept may be outdated.

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  • #31
When you finish measuring the location of particle, it certainly looks like a particle - you have found something at one position in space. When you wait a bit and then measure its position again, it is still a particle. No question about it - it is a particle. When you then do this several times, and reflect on what mathematics would describe where you are finding the particle each time, you (actually physicists 100 years ago) discover it looks like a wave spread out from the particle, around any obstacles, and the probability that you find the particle in a certain place is related to the amplitude of that wave.

The formula for a wave looks like d2y/dx2 = y, but it turns out the wave that is guiding the particle has a factor of "i" (the square root of negative one). To figure out the shape of the wave, you have to know about the forces acting on the particle (the "Hamiltonian") and use that to solve the Schrödinger equation. When you solve the Schrödinger equation for the "wavefunction", and you try to measure the momentum of the particle according to the Rules of Quantum Mechanics, you might be surprised to find the solution describes a wave. I think the technical way to say it is that the eigenvalues of momentum (possible values the particle's momentum might take) are frequencies of a wave.

So there are some aspects of particles that are wavelike in their nature. What if you could look at an electron - would it look fuzzy and spread out like a wave, or would you never be able to see it because it would be a little point no matter how hard you looked at it? Well, as far as they've gotten, it does look just like a point ... but it is probably made up of smaller things (some think little open vibrating strings). We probably won't be able to make light waves of a high-enough frequency to see the details of an electron in our lifetime, and QM and Relativity famously disagree on how the parts of something that tiny would look and behave. String theory's math bases the behavior on the math of ordinary string (massive point particles connected by massless spring-like forces). Electrons do seem to be spinning all the time, though, because they have magnetic fields, and one can think of these fields being cause by the electrical charge of the electron spinning around some axis. I think most experts would correct me and say that the spinning might not be real - but according to famous theoretical physicist Leonard Susskind in a Stanford lecture I saw, it could be that they are extended, spinning objects.
 
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  • #32
DrChinese said:
You could never say a theory is the "actual picture".
Is that statement: theory, the actual picture, or something else?
 
  • #33
Considering the comparison of a light source being like a group of simultaneously dropped balls...Then how could 'falling' photons influence each other?

Isn't it most likely the slit experiment phenomena isn't resulting from 'photon interaction'?

But by simply glancing off the slits?

As a function of their 'then oriented' structure; varying with time?
 
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  • #34
MittyWalter said:
I'm far more comfortable with reality *being* reality. You're either here or there. Every instant contains a single reality. You cannot be in two places at once, nor can you follow two paths at the same time. If you wind up in California, it's because you either drove or flew there. Not both.

@MittyWalter : I'm going back to the very beginning which I am sure is the source of all your problems. Until you are able to wrap your head around the concept of quantum superposition, you will never get over the hump of not being able to understand what quantum theory is.

Please note also that Nature has no obligation to present herself in ways that you are "comfortable" with.

Zz.
 
  • #35
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