Physical limitation on energy quantity stored in a battery?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the physical limitations on the energy quantity that can be stored in batteries, exploring theoretical and practical aspects of energy storage in chemical batteries, including comparisons between different battery technologies and materials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether there is a hard limit on the energy that can be extracted from chemical energy sources, referencing E = mc^2 as a theoretical maximum.
  • One participant discusses the necessity of two half cells in chemical batteries for redox processes, noting that energy considerations may depend on the standard enthalpies of chemical reactions.
  • Several participants mention lithium-ion batteries as a prevalent energy storage method and speculate on the reasons for lithium's selection, including its size and energy density advantages over sodium-ion batteries.
  • Concerns are raised about the abundance of lithium, with one participant noting that while lithium is available, it is not always in commercially viable forms.
  • Another participant discusses the theoretical limits of batteries as determined by thermodynamic laws, emphasizing the importance of the active materials used in battery construction and their placement on the periodic table.
  • There is mention of advanced battery technologies like Li-Air and Zn-Air batteries, which could potentially achieve higher energy densities by utilizing oxygen from the air as a cathode material.
  • One participant asserts that hydrogen fuel cells represent the highest energy density achievable for practical applications, suggesting that no current battery technology can match their performance for larger systems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the limitations and potentials of different battery technologies, with no consensus on a definitive answer regarding the best energy storage method or the ultimate limits of energy extraction from chemical sources.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various factors influencing battery energy density, including the choice of materials, engineering challenges, and the role of packaging and electrolytes, without resolving the complexities involved.

pa5tabear
Messages
174
Reaction score
0
I keep hearing about new and more efficient batteries.

Is there a hard limit on the amount of energy that could be extracted from a stored chemical energy source?

Obviously the absolute maximum amount of energy would be given by E = mc^2, but I think that would be far beyond any realistic limit. Is this true?
 
Chemistry news on Phys.org
One way of looking at the problem: in chemical batteries you need two half cells for a full redox process to take place. It almost always means several atoms per each electron exchanged. In the best case I can think of - hydrogen/oxygen fuel cell - it is a single atom of hydrogen and half an atom of oxygen, so about 7 amu per electron.

So far it is about charge, not about amount of energy, if you are looking at the amount of energy solely, you can browse tables of standard enthalpies for chemical reactions.
 
Borek said:
One way of looking at the problem: in chemical batteries you need two half cells for a full redox process to take place. It almost always means several atoms per each electron exchanged. In the best case I can think of - hydrogen/oxygen fuel cell - it is a single atom of hydrogen and half an atom of oxygen, so about 7 amu per electron.

So far it is about charge, not about amount of energy, if you are looking at the amount of energy solely, you can browse tables of standard enthalpies for chemical reactions.

Thanks! I hadn't thought of it in this simple a manner.

Do you know what the current most efficient energy storage methods are (in terms of mass efficiency)?
 
Lithium-ion batteries.
 
Borek said:
Lithium-ion batteries.

Do you know why Lithium is the metal of choice?

I'd guess that since it's the smallest alkali metal, it can provide greater energy density than, say, a Sodium-ion battery. Also I'm assuming it's abundant enought that supply is not a significant roadblock.

Are there potential "better" choices?
 
pa5tabear said:
I'd guess that since it's the smallest alkali metal, it can provide greater energy density than, say, a Sodium-ion battery. Also I'm assuming it's abundant enought that supply is not a significant roadblock.

I would guess you are right about the first part. When it comes to abundance and availability - yes, there is a lot if lithium on Earth, but it is dispersed, with not many minerals being a commercially viable sources. So the situation is not as good as we would like it to be.

Are there potential "better" choices?

None that I am aware of, but then I don't follow the developments in the battery electrochemistry, so it doesn't mean much.
 
The theoretical limit of batteries is more or less determined by the first and second laws of thermodynamics. That is, the relationship between the change in gibbs free energy for each half cell reaction and the molecular weight of the active species involved in the reaction.

To understand these relationships more simply, just look at the periodic table. In a nutshell, you want your negative electrode to be an element farthest to the left (for greatest activity) and the positive material to be an element farthest from the right (except for noble gases). And you want both materials to as closest to the top (least density). To see this more clearly, look at a Standard Reaction Table (below). You can see that the greatest cell potential (and therefore energy) comes from Lithium and Fluorine. This is about as a good of a battery as you're ever going to get. But obviously, building a battery like this is a huge engineering challenge. Not only is Li metal hard to contain and work with but F is obviously gaseous and tends to react with everything.

But there's a lot more to obtaining high energy density than just active materials. Packaging, electrolytes, separators, and containment, are all factors which greatly influence a battery's energy density. As for today's technology, most people are looking at using Li-Air and Zn-Air batteries for achieving energy densities of up to ~400Wh/kg. In a nutshell, with this design you only carry the anode of the battery and let your cathode be oxygen in the air so theoretically you can cut your battery weight in half.

But as Borek stated, the "holy grail" of electrochemical energy density for practical purposes is really hydrogen fuel cells. You will never see a battery that is capable of providing the energy density of a PEMFC system for suitably large enough systems (i.e. consumer vehicles). There's a lot of companies out there that have claimed they can, including supercap makers, but so far no one has been able to demonstrate it.

sat117002_0605.gif
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
4K
Replies
6
Views
24K
Replies
23
Views
22K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K