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Physics dilettante needs help with product development

  1. Aug 8, 2014 #1
    Hello people.

    I'm thinking of using something like Twaron or Nomex fabric for a new application but one of the draw backs is the heat insulation property of these fabrics and I need to get around that and hopefully (in a wish upon a star kind of way) add a bit to the heat it can take.
    I was thinking of using metal wire, weaving it through the fabric and those would then conduct the heat through to the other side and, as I said, hopefully divert some of the heat off of the Twaron/Nomex fibers.
    Not taking anything for granted, would it conduct heat through and would it lessen the strain on the fabric? My guess would be yes for the former and no for the latter but I'd like your input on the matter as you surely know more about it than I.
    Any other ideas on achieving the effects I hope for would be appreciated.

    Thank you for your time.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  2. jcsd
  3. Aug 8, 2014 #2

    Simon Bridge

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    Good guess - depending on the heat source and sink, the wires will, of course, get hot.
    Without knowing the details of the product/invention, there is no way to help you further.
  4. Aug 9, 2014 #3


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    A cursory google tells me Nomex is primarily used for heat shielding.
    Why you would select Nomex then attempt to destroy it's most desirable property makes absolutely no sense to me.

    FYI aramids are stronger than most steels so adding steel fibres will most likely weaken your fabric, particularly at high temps when creep comes into play.

    What are the properties you require?
  5. Aug 9, 2014 #4
    Thank you for your replies.
    The fabric/material I need should withstand heat and allow heat through and I need the pliability of a textile.
    So, pliability, heat and abrasion resistance are the main characteristics I'm after and the heat shielding is to me an unfortunate side effect and not as you say it's most desirable property.

    I've found other materials but those are E-glas fibers with other issues that I'm trying to solve consulting the manufacturer´s R&D department.

    Dupont and Teijin seem a bit full of themselves and don't think they should waste any time on an individual with an idea (despite Teijin´s proudly paraded policy on R&D on their page that would lead you to the opposite conclusion) so that option, I've found, is not available with these companies.
  6. Aug 9, 2014 #5


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    So why not use mesh? low conductivity doesn't matter if the fabric is mostly holes.
  7. Aug 9, 2014 #6
    There might be some other issues with that but it is a good suggestion, I'll let you know if it turned out to be viable. Thank you Billy.
  8. Aug 9, 2014 #7

    Simon Bridge

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    Steel mesh would be a flexible heat conductor that also withstands high temperatures?
    There must be lots of flexible materials that operate at a high temperature - for a given value of "high".
    Still very vague.

    There is another point here though: how ethical is it to exploit free-of-charge assistance to design a product which you presumably hope to sell at a personal profit?

    Whatever: you seem either unable or unwilling to be specific about your materials requirements - so you should address those concerns.

    The best advise here is that you should hire a materials engineer.

    Once you have an engineer under contract, you get to go over your project specs in detail and they will be in a good position to select the best materials to fit your needs and constraints and help refine the concept to get a working prototype. Then it's lawyers and patents I suppose.

    The best way to use a site like this one is to reality check the underlying concept.
    i.e. is it physically possible? Has it already been done in some way?

    That can save you a lot of money while providing a useful challenge for the members here. Win-win.
  9. Aug 11, 2014 #8
    Mr. Bridge, I seriously doubt you actually have a problem with the ethics of this since if you did you'd be enabling unethical behaviour and would be morally obligated, enough to negate any responsibility you might feel you have to pass on what you know, to not give aid.
    Further, the whole science education section of this forum would also fall under the same rule of ethics unless all who receive help there never work with anything related to the education they received help with for personal profit.
    Since the very question amounts to pretty much an accusation, how ethical is it to throw around accusations of unethical behaviour while enabling said behaviour?

    Are you saying I should've lied by omission in order to avoid your question, not develop the product or kill the business idea by offering part of the profit to anyone weighing in on the matter or mire myself and the post in legal mumbo jumbo, which would amount to nothing since I'm not qualified or give the money for a prototype to a lawyer instead to avoid it, or give said money to you instead of making a prototype before I even have proof of concept?
    In short, what the hell are you talking about?

    I'll just take part in a cooperative society and give aid even if it results in that horrid thing called personal profit despite not getting part of it if that's ok with you.
  10. Aug 11, 2014 #9


    Staff: Mentor

    There is nothing unethical with that. The most commonly used open-source software licenses deliberately encourage exactly that practice.

    It would be unethical to coerce assistance, but if it is not coerced then the amount and type of compensation is up to the two parties to negotiate according to their own mutual agreement.
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