Programs Physics vs Engineering for Solid State Research

[dslash1011]

I'm going to apply for university and as any other student interested in physics, I'm stuck with the centuries old question, physics or engineering. I'm quite sure I will be going for grad school afterwards as I really liked doing research and stuff. I am yet to confirm on which field I'm most interested in, but let's assume that I want to get into the solid state / semiconductor research field, is studying electrical engineering a better choice compared to physics degree? (I heard that a physics degree is a jack of all trades and I'm not sure whether it applies in this scenario)

 

[CrysPhys]

I'm going to apply for university and as any other student interested in physics, I'm stuck with the centuries old question, physics or engineering. I'm quite sure I will be going for grad school afterwards as I really liked doing research and stuff. I am yet to confirm on which field I'm most interested in, but let's assume that I want to get into the solid state / semiconductor research field, is studying electrical engineering a better choice compared to physics degree? (I heard that a physics degree is a jack of all trades and I'm not sure whether it applies in this scenario)

* What country are you in?

* It may be too early for you to know, but do you plan to stop at a masters or continue on to a PhD?

* Again, maybe too early for you to know, but are you set on an academic career or more flexible (e.g., a career in industry)?

 

[Jody]

I’ll say during my undergraduate as an electrical engineer in the US…. professors and internships offered a wealth of semiconductor research projects, but I felt like for a full-time career after graduating…. bachelors doesn’t look like enough for the positions I looked at.

 

[dslash1011]

* What country are you in?

* It may be too early for you to know, but do you plan to stop at a masters or continue on to a PhD?

* Again, maybe too early for you to know, but are you set on an academic career or more flexible (e.g., a career in industry)?

1) I'm an international student planning to study in UK

2) If things go well, I would definitely try to get a PhD

3) I think currently my first choice is to stay in academia but I can't be absolutely sure on this.

 

[dslash1011]

I’ll say during my undergraduate as an electrical engineer in the US…. professors and internships offered a wealth of semiconductor research projects, but I felt like for a full-time career after graduating…. bachelors doesn’t look like enough for the positions I looked at.

I definitely agree that having a bachelors is not enough for these positions. I'm just wondering whether the engineering route or the physics route will put me in a better place for these positions

 

[CrysPhys]

1) I'm an international student planning to study in UK

2) If things go well, I would definitely try to get a PhD

3) I think currently my first choice is to stay in academia but I can't be absolutely sure on this.

Follow-up questions. These also may be too early to tell. But as much as possible, it would be helpful to get a sense of where you're headed, since the answer to your initial question depends somewhat on location. (a) If all goes well with your undergrad in the UK, do you plan to do your grad work in the UK, or are you open to other options? (b) After you complete your education, do you plan to stay in the UK, return to your home country (if so, what is that), or stay flexible in where you end up working?

In particular, would the US be an option for (a) or (b)?

 

[CrysPhys]

I definitely agree that having a bachelors is not enough for these positions. I'm just wondering whether the engineering route or the physics route will put me in a better place for these positions

Depends on what, where, and when "these positions" are. "Solid state / semiconductor research field" encompasses a broad scope of positions.

 

[dslash1011]

Follow-up questions. These also may be too early to tell. But as much as possible, it would be helpful to get a sense of where you're headed, since the answer to your initial question depends somewhat on location. (a) If all goes well with your undergrad in the UK, do you plan to do your grad work in the UK, or are you open to other options? (b) After you complete your education, do you plan to stay in the UK, return to your home country (if so, what is that), or stay flexible in where you end up working?

In particular, would the US be an option for (a) or (b)?

For me I don't really have any preference on which country to work or do my grad school. I'm flexible to work anywhere including the US as long as there are opportunities there.

 

[f95toli]

If you want to get an undergraduate degree in the UK with the goal of eventually doing research a physics degree would be the way to go. Engineering degrees in the UK are typically not very research focused; and you will typically find that the people in involved in semiconductor research have a physics degree even if they work in an EE department. Hence, a MSc Physics followed by a PhD in semiconductor physics (often done in an EE department) would be a possible route.

Please note that the situation is very different in other countries.

 

[dslash1011]

If you want to get an undergraduate degree in the UK with the goal of eventually doing research a physics degree would be the way to go. Engineering degrees in the UK are typically not very research focused; and you will typically find that the people in involved in semiconductor research have a physics degree even if they work in an EE department. Hence, a MSc Physics followed by a PhD in semiconductor physics (often done in an EE department) would be a possible route.

Please note that the situation is very different in other countries.

Thanks for the reply, this really helped a lot. I'm pretty sure I would want to get into research afterwards so physics will most probably be my route. Specifically for UK, do you recommend doing 4 years integrated MPhys? Are the any disadvantages doing one instead of BSc in Physics followed by MSc Physics?

 

[f95toli]

Thanks for the reply, this really helped a lot. I'm pretty sure I would want to get into research afterwards so physics will most probably be my route. Specifically for UK, do you recommend doing 4 years integrated MPhys? Are the any disadvantages doing one instead of BSc in Physics followed by MSc Physics?

I don't think there is a good answer since it would depend on the university. To be honest, the name of the university and -importantly- recommendations from whoever supervises your final project is going to matter more than if it is a MPhys or a separate MSc. That said, some MSc programs can be quite specialised and I guess doing a separate MSc might be a good option if you want to do a PhD in specifically in that topic.

I know that the one thing you need to look at is the cost; I believe (I could be wrong) that an integrated MPhys is typically cheaper.

 

[dslash1011]

I don't think there is a good answer since it would depend on the university. To be honest, the name of the university and -importantly- recommendations from whoever supervises your final project is going to matter more than if it is a MPhys or a separate MSc. That said, some MSc programs can be quite specialised and I guess doing a separate MSc might be a good option if you want to do a PhD in specifically in that topic.

I know that the one thing you need to look at is the cost; I believe (I could be wrong) that an integrated MPhys is typically cheaper.

Yes, from what I saw, MPhys are generally cheaper. The reason I'm asking firstly is due to the specialization and the other reason is I'm curious whether doing a BSc in Physics will give me an easier transition to MSc in engineering if I really have to do so (TBVH I'm still slightly worried about the job prospects after pure physics)

 

[CrysPhys]

Yes, from what I saw, MPhys are generally cheaper. The reason I'm asking firstly is due to the specialization and the other reason is I'm curious whether doing a BSc in Physics will give me an easier transition to MSc in engineering if I really have to do so (TBVH I'm still slightly worried about the job prospects after pure physics)

* You might find some helpful perspectives in this recent thread: https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...-semiconductor-industry.1007212/#post-6544148 .

* In the US, you can do solid-state/semiconductor research (university, industry, or government lab) with a PhD in physics or EE (or other majors such as chemistry or materials science and engineering). Sometimes there is a different emphasis (e.g., fundamental properties of semiconductors regardless of potential device applications vs new device designs). But sometimes people with different majors work along side each other in exactly the same specialty [e.g., I got my PhD in physics, but worked in R&D of epitaxial crystal growth; I had colleagues who had majors in EE, chemistry, or materials science and engineering].

* In the US, with respect to career opportunities, if you decide to stop with a master's, and not to continue to a PhD, you're far better off with a master's in EE than in physics.

* With respect to choosing between physics and EE, also look at the required courses outside of your immediate interest (research in solid-state/semiconductors). E.g., at my undergrad university, the introductory course for EE was not something I would have found exciting (such as devices and circuits), but Introductory Network Theory. I found it really boring, and dropped it. On the other hand, to get my PhD in physics, I had to tolerate a graduate semester of high-energy particle physics.

* Suppose you got your PhD in physics vs EE. Then suppose there were a meltdown in your target field of solid-state/semiconductor research. What Plan B (C, D, ...) would you find satisfactory, and which major would better prepare you for them?

* Many of the above issues you can't resolve at this early stage. But keep them in mind as you progress in your education. I don't know how flexible the education programs in the UK are. But in many US universities, you can, e.g., major in physics and take electives in EE (or major in EE and take electives in physics). I was waffling between physics and materials science and engineering. I ended up majoring in physics and taking electives in materials science and engineering (both undergrad and grad). I did my PhD dissertation for a professor who had a PhD in chemistry, but had a joint appointment in physics and materials science and engineering.

 

[dslash1011]

* You might find some helpful perspectives in this recent thread: https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...-semiconductor-industry.1007212/#post-6544148 .

* In the US, you can do solid-state/semiconductor research (university, industry, or government lab) with a PhD in physics or EE (or other majors such as chemistry or materials science and engineering). Sometimes there is a different emphasis (e.g., fundamental properties of semiconductors regardless of potential device applications vs new device designs). But sometimes people with different majors work along side each other in exactly the same specialty [e.g., I got my PhD in physics, but worked in R&D of epitaxial crystal growth; I had colleagues who had majors in EE, chemistry, or materials science and engineering].

* In the US, with respect to career opportunities, if you decide to stop with a master's, and not to continue to a PhD, you're far better off with a master's in EE than in physics.

* With respect to choosing between physics and EE, also look at the required courses outside of your immediate interest (research in solid-state/semiconductors). E.g., at my undergrad university, the introductory course for EE was not something I would have found exciting (such as devices and circuits), but Introductory Network Theory. I found it really boring, and dropped it. On the other hand, to get my PhD in physics, I had to tolerate a graduate semester of high-energy particle physics.

* Suppose you got your PhD in physics vs EE. Then suppose there were a meltdown in your target field of solid-state/semiconductor research. What Plan B (C, D, ...) would you find satisfactory, and which major would better prepare you for them?

* Many of the above issues you can't resolve at this early stage. But keep them in mind as you progress in your education. I don't know how flexible the education programs in the UK are. But in many US universities, you can, e.g., major in physics and take electives in EE (or major in EE and take electives in physics). I was waffling between physics and materials science and engineering. I ended up majoring in physics and taking electives in materials science and engineering (both undergrad and grad). I did my PhD dissertation for a professor who had a PhD in chemistry, but had a joint appointment in physics and materials science and engineering.

I appreciate your reply, it did provide me lots of information. From what I know, UK universities do not have as much freedom as US universities for electives courses. I think I will stick with a physics major as I don’t think I am ready to specifically decide which area of research I would want to continue in the future. Having a major in physics seems to provide me more different options. But anyways, thank you very much!

 

[Office_Shredder]

Do you have to commit to the 4 year integrated program at the start? When I did my math degree you only had to let them know if you were doing the 4th year masters in the middle of the third year.

 

[dslash1011]

Do you have to commit to the 4 year integrated program at the start? When I did my math degree you only had to let them know if you were doing the 4th year masters in the middle of the third year.

I am not very sure on this TBH, I think it varies from school to school. Will check on it when I have decided which course and school to apple for. Thanks

 

[dlgoff]

physics or engineering

Well, there is such a degree as Engineering Physics.

 

[dslash1011]

Well, there is such a degree as Engineering Physics.

Sadly my university options don't provide such choice

 

[f95toli]

Well, there is such a degree as Engineering Physics.

Engineering physics does not -as far as I am aware- really exist as a MSc degree in the UK. Physics and and engineering are -unfortunately- quite distinct areas at most UK universities.
There are 3 universities offering BSc degrees, but I don't think you can do it to the MSc level.

 

[paralleltransport]

I actually don't recommend a degree in Engineering physics. Better to major in physics and take a few select courses in engineer that you want to specialize in. Most companies don't know what to do with you when you show them an engineering physics degree.

I'm was double major EE/physics so I may be able to have some insight into this.

I'd say you probably want to exclusively focus on physics if you want to do theoretical physics for grad school. This is because an Engineering degree is hopelessly inadequate to study theoretical physics and the competition in theory is incredibly steep.

If you go into experimental physics, a strong knowledge of Engineering is a huge plus. As an EE I had a ton more hardware debugging/pratical skills compared to a pure physics major. At a grad level, the line between experimental physics and EE is very small.

Also there are far more Engineering research positions than there are physics research positions. My impression is most Physics PhD's end doing computer software/finance. Your chance of doing R&D position in engineering is quite high with a engineering PhD. Your chance of ending in a R&D or academic position in physics specifically is quite low. That should not be a downside though because a lot of physics PhD's end up doing some R&D position, just not in physics.

BTW i never regretted my physics degree even though I'm now a practicing engineer. First the theory was beautiful. Second, some of the foundational skills in a physics degree is much harder to "pick up" on the job (especially math).

 

[dslash1011]

I actually don't recommend a degree in Engineering physics. Better to major in physics and take a few select courses in engineer that you want to specialize in. Most companies don't know what to do with you when you show them an engineering physics degree.

I'm was double major EE/physics so I may be able to have some insight into this.

I'd say you probably want to exclusively focus on physics if you want to do theoretical physics for grad school. This is because an Engineering degree is hopelessly inadequate to study theoretical physics and the competition in theory is incredibly steep.

If you go into experimental physics, a strong knowledge of Engineering is a huge plus. As an EE I had a ton more hardware debugging/pratical skills compared to a pure physics major. At a grad level, the line between experimental physics and EE is very small.

Also there are far more Engineering research positions than there are physics research positions. My impression is most Physics PhD's end doing computer software/finance. Your chance of doing R&D position in engineering is quite high with a engineering PhD. Your chance of ending in a R&D or academic position in physics specifically is quite low. That should not be a downside though because a lot of physics PhD's end up doing some R&D position, just not in physics.

BTW i never regretted my physics degree even though I'm now a practicing engineer. First the theory was beautiful. Second, some of the foundational skills in a physics degree is much harder to "pick up" on the job (especially math).

TBH, I'm still not sure whether I would want to specialize in experimental or theoretical in the future. Most probably I will be studying in the UK which not many school provides double major option. The point that concerns me the most is that I'm not sure whether I am able to handle the work load of double major or not, I'm worried that I might end up with bad results in both major.

 

[paralleltransport]

I double majored, but I don't recommend it. If you are going to grad school, much better to do a single major and maybe take a few classes in the other area if you find it useful.

 

[dslash1011]

I double majored, but I don't recommend it. If you are going to grad school, much better to do a single major and maybe take a few classes in the other area if you find it useful.

Yup, I think that's what I'm going to do. Thanks for your respond!