Please, please, be really specific about end-of-life care

[rhody]

Hi guys. I am wondering if anyone can give me some tips on how to talk to my parents about whether or not they have living wills. My dad is 72 (with terrible genetics) and I don't know how to bring it up politely.

Maybe you could suggest a bit of estate-planning. Any decent lawyer will offer to draw up Living Will documents as part of that package.

King,

I have seen this play itself out more than once now, I consider myself by NO MEANS an expert in this area, but, my experience is that until your loved ones are faced with some hard choices (and being still of sound mind, mind you) they will be hesitant to draw up a will or as turbo has suggested go for legal guidance on estate planning. In our situation, all family loved ones were present, and there was plenty of heated dialog over this as you can imagine. A united front (if one can be established) before going into the meeting is important too, to let your parents know you (the siblings) are all on the same page. I hope this helps, even a little in your situation.

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

Things are not better on the family front because the haters in my wife's family are dedicated to their vendetta. Now that they have come around to the realization that their mother really needs skilled nursing care for her dementia, they are entirely unwilling to forgive my wife and her next-older sister for pressing the issue. We have a bunch of women in their late 50's to mid 60's that are willing to crap all over a couple of sisters who realized early-on that the family-members didn't have the training or skills to take adequate care of their mother. It's really sad. PLEASE make your last wishes crystal-clear, and make your living will inviolable!

Edit: At least my wife and I are tight, and we treasure our lives with our dog. We can ignore the hate and stay close. We have neighbors that understand, and that's nice.

 

[dlgoff]

Edit: At least my wife and I are tight, and we treasure our lives with our dog. We can ignore the hate and stay close. We have neighbors that understand, and that's nice.

And you have us here. Virtually i.e.

 

[turbo]

And you have us here. Virtually i.e.

Thanks, dlg. It really hurts to see so many once-close family ties cut. Two of the sisters and their husbands and children used to get together a lot, including every single Thanksgiving and Christmas. Now one of the sisters is so enraged and spiteful that she won't even speak when they meet - she'll just turn away.

My wife and her closest sister spend time together and we share berries, produce from our gardens, etc, and her husband comes over to lend a hand whenever there is an electrical mystery afoot - great troubleshooter. Still, that's about all we've got left of a family of 7 siblings and their spouses.

 

[Borek]

I think they don't like your wife and her sister because they are guilty of predicting what have happened. Nobody likes messenger with a bad news, and that can be the way they see it. You know - they were telling it is necessary and finally it happened, so it is their fault.

 

[turbo]

I think they don't like your wife and her sister because they are guilty of predicting what have happened. Nobody likes messenger with a bad news, and that can be the way they see it. You know - they were telling it is necessary and finally it happened, so it is their fault.

You're probably right. Even though they now recognize the necessity of getting their mother some skilled care (years after the fact) they show no signs of apologizing for the hateful things that they have said and done to my wife and her sane sister. Until a month or so ago, this has been the most stressful period of my life - even worse than the unexpected death of my mother when my younger brother was only 5. We had troubles, but the whole family didn't tear itself apart.

 

[DoggerDan]

My mother-in-law is ~95 and physically healthy, but badly demented. Two-three of the siblings insist on keeping her at home, but it is increasingly evident that she needs to be in a nursing home. 4-5 siblings are now willing to get her into a nursing home, but the conflict is tearing the family apart. We have people in their 50s and 60s at each others' throats. People who used to love to get together at the family camp for holidays, and who would do about anything for each other.

1. I'm of the mind it's the responsibility of the individual to provide directives in case they're no longer capable of doing so.

2. I'm also of the mind that if they didn't, it's up to the family members to chill out. Keeping someone alive "at all costs" is foolish, as is pulling the plug on any and all available treatment.

Nevertheless, spats will happen. When they do, I'll not be a part of it other than to remind people of 1 and 2, above. If people are pulling their hair out, I'll adjourn, write a letter to the hospital indicating my input and let the straws fall where they may. Again, if they don't fall where I think they should, then the responsibility for that falls squarely on the doormat of the individual who's sick and those who're pinging left and right trying to force the others to agree with them that the patient needs green tea instead of regular.

If you don't have a living will, make one. If your parent doesn't have a living will, please encourage them to make one.

Excellent advice.

Some aspects of my life are a hell because I'm watching this family getting torn up over a lack of planning and clear intent. This spring/summer has been especially stressful, because my wife has been under undue strain, and there is nothing that I can do to help.

How about stepping back so that you're no longer directly involved?

 

[turbo]

How about stepping back so that you're no longer directly involved?

Easy to say and hard to do when you have 35-45 years of involvement with principals. And when you have in-laws that are flipping out, saying very hateful things about ones that you love, and are keeping you in a constant state of PTSD (Perhaps "post" wasn't a fair word to use in that acronym.) it is hard to stay stable.

Try living in a small town (less than 1000 people) when there are 4-5 people actively trying to poison public opinion against a couple of sisters that want to try to get the best medical care and supervision for their mother, when the others are ready to demonize them for "wanting to put our mother in a nursing home". None of these siblings have any training in medical care, so their mother has suffered from unnecessary, easily-treatable respiratory deficits, urinary-tract infections, and other medical ailments that remained unresolved until my wife or her sister showed up and recognized her distress. Of course my wife could only tend her mother on weekends, since she works full time, so these interventions could only happen on weekends when the mother's primary care doctor was unavailable.

 

[rhody]

Easy to say and hard to do when you have 35-45 years of involvement with principals. And when you have in-laws that are flipping out, saying very hateful things about ones that you love, and are keeping you in a constant state of PTSD (Perhaps "post" wasn't a fair word to use in that acronym.) it is hard to stay stable.

Try living in a small town (less than 1000 people) when there are 4-5 people actively trying to poison public opinion against a couple of sisters that want to try to get the best medical care and supervision for their mother, when the others are ready to demonize them for "wanting to put our mother in a nursing home". None of these siblings have any training in medical care, so their mother has suffered from respiratory deficits, urinary-tract infections, and other easily-treatable medical ailments that remained unresolved until my wife or her sister showed up and recognized her distress. Of course my wife could only tend her mother on weekends, since she works full time, so these interventions could only happen on weekends when the mother's primary care doctor was unavailable.

I feel your pain Turbo and your wife's too. I went through this and nothing I can say will ease it, but I can offer look back advice, if that means anything. Don't let your own health suffer from doing too much, doing it too often, always giving 110% no matter what, for too long a period, because if you do, there is a significant chance that you and or your wife may face life threatening issues of your own. I know, because we did, and knock on wood today we are fairly healthy again. We didn't have toxic in-laws to deal with, pretty much sole responsibility to deal with our loved ones medical care, and even then there was at times overwhelming stress to deal with. In the end, we did the best we could given the situation and we have no regrets to weigh on conscience(s).

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

I bumped into a brother-in-law yesterday while looking for snow tires for my wife's vehicle. He was friendly and pleasant, so we spent a bit of time catching up. Due to his wife's attitude toward my wife, we'll likely never again get together for cookouts at the lake, etc. It's really sad.

Rarely, I run into another brother-in-law, whose wife is the most poison of the group. We always take time to catch up with one another. He and I used to get away to the deep woods to camp and to fly fish remote ponds at least one weekend every summer, and maybe twice if we could get away. We can't let the nastiness intrude on our friendship - I have known him about all my life. His father (our family doctor) warned him not to be as reckless as me because I was in the office at least once a year for stitches, tetanus shots, etc.