Don't ever get old if you can help it.

[turbo]

Kind of a cynical title, but I just got a call from my sister-in-law after she, another sister-in-law, and their mother had spent many hours in the hospital. My 92-year-old mother-in-law has senile dementia and has a great deal of trouble communicating about health issues. My wife and her sisters and one brother take turns providing 24/7 coverage so she can stay in her own home instead of a nursing home, and twice in the past month, my wife has noticed behavioral swings in her mother, general discomfort, etc, and has taken her to the hospital to be checked out. One visit resulted in a diagnosis of congestive heart failure (with Lasix prescribed, etc) and the other turned up a nasty urinary tract infection. Today, my wife and two of her sisters conferred, and decided to run her down to the hospital to be checked out. Lung X-rays have turned up what may be pneumonia, so the old girl is in for another round of tests tomorrow.

I don't ever want to get so old that I am such a burden on my family. When she has lucid moments, she is very depressed about how accommodating her condition is taking her adult children away from their own families and spouses. When she is not lucid, she often complains that there are "too many people" coming and going, yet she keeps asking why more of her kids are not showing up for meals, etc. It's really sad.

 

[rootX]

But, not all old people get into that situation.

I always wonder what's the best stage - I guess 25-30.

- Being kid is also being dependent so I don't think that's the best.
...
- At about 30 responsibilities grow exponentially
...
- Near 50s/60s you start getting all kind of health problems
...
- Being too old is also not good (also look the most boring stage).
But, I think being old means more understand of life and people. It's a good stage provided that you are healthy and independent. But, I know some old people who can't die but live miserable life and wish they die soon. :(

I don't ever want to get so old that I am such a burden on my family. When she has lucid moments, she is very depressed about how accommodating her condition is taking her adult children away from their own families and spouses. When she is not lucid, she often complains that there are "too many people" coming and going, yet she keeps asking why more of her kids are not showing up for meals, etc. It's really sad.

Does she wants to die too (not like young depressed people) ?


For now, more I grow more better I get i.e. I always prefer my present over my past or I don't mind getting old :_).

 

[wolram]

Turbo, you guys keep your chins up, you are doing a bloody good job.

 

[NeoDevin]

Curious question: Why are they so against her living in a nursing home? Seems to me that would be the best option all around, as long as it's a good home. She would get the care she needs, and your wife and her sister wouldn't have to spend as much time away from their family.

 

[turbo]

Curious question: Why are they so against her living in a nursing home? Seems to me that would be the best option all around, as long as it's a good home. She would get the care she needs, and your wife and her sister wouldn't have to spend as much time away from their family.

She was in the nursing home briefly while recovering from an injury, and she was confused and miserable. She constantly asked or demanded to be taken home and made everyone's (frequent) visits quite miserable. My wife's family (and my own, for that instance) has always tried to provide family-supplied home health care, and there is great resistance among some of the siblings to getting their mother into a nursing home. Stuff like this can divide a family, so my wife and a couple of her siblings (who think nursing home care might be better) are treading very lightly on the issue and toughing it out.

 

[misgfool]

She was in the nursing home briefly while recovering from an injury, and she was confused and miserable. She constantly asked or demanded to be taken home and made everyone's (frequent) visits quite miserable. My wife's family (and my own, for that instance) has always tried to provide family-supplied home health care, and there is great resistance among some of the siblings to getting their mother into a nursing home. Stuff like this can divide a family, so my wife and a couple of her siblings (who think nursing home care might be better) are treading very lightly on the issue and toughing it out.

Taking care of say parents with Alzheimer or dementia is very demanding. The patient becomes tabula rasa which is the worst part. Having done that even only for a short while, I strongly recommend taking her to a nursing home. If I ever get kids I'll probably tell them to force me into a nursing home, no matter what I say when/if the disease is affecting me. I sure as hell don't want them to remember me the way I am at that stage. If someone else volunteers to treat her, let them, but it's time to let go of her and let her end her days with dignity.

 

[turbo]

Taking care of say parents with Alzheimer or dementia is very demanding. The patient becomes tabula rasa which is the worst part. Having done that even only for a short while, I strongly recommend taking her to a nursing home. If I ever get kids I'll probably tell them to force me into a nursing home, no matter what I say when/if the disease is affecting me. I sure as hell don't want them to remember me the way I am at that stage. If someone else volunteers to treat her, let them, but it's time to let go of her and let her end her days with dignity.

You're right, of course, and my wife and I, and at least one or two of her sisters believe that a nursing home would be a safer, more consistent environment for her. There is a place about 15 minutes away that is highly-regarded, and staffed by locals, who tend to come to know the people in their charge, especially because the place is pretty small.

Adamant opposition from a few very vocal family members is the problem. They insist that their mother must continue to live in her own house, and (selfishly) expect that all the siblings must sacrifice a 24-hour shift each week, whether or not they agree. It's toughest on my wife her younger sister because they both work full-time (sometimes with overtime) AND they have to give up an entire day and night every weekend. Family politics are heavy in these times, as you might imagine.

 

[baywax]

Yeah Turbo... you know the old saying... "get even with your kids, live long enough to be a problem to them." I think its British... its on the wall in my favourite British Diner.

It was me and my siblings who decided to keep mom at home rather than in a hospital or nursing home. I think that's where the responsibility lies. Who decides these things? Certainly not my mom who was whacked way out on morphine to deal with lung that had metastasized into her spine cancer. It was our decision and it was based on the feeling that she had pretty well spent all of her prime years taking care of us... so this was the least we could do.

The rub is that you still need 24 hour care and you don't know who they're going to send you next. Sometimes you get an angel and sometimes you Bertha the stand-in from the Teamster's Hiring Hall.

Ach... as for never getting old. Its all in the head. Avoid dementia by keeping your mind active in discussion groups and organizing events etc... Avoid most other ailments by staying abreast of the latest findings concerning things like vitamin D, sunshine, swimming, sex, laughter, sex, beer, etc... Most importantly... don't believe in numbers like 35 or 50 or 70 etc... only believe your experience and how you feel when the chickadees are talking to you. (edit: "chickadee" as in the bird)

 

[misgfool]

Ach... as for never getting old. Its all in the head. Avoid dementia by keeping your mind active in discussion groups and organizing events etc..

I doesn't work that way. When dementia comes, there is no way to stop it. In a few years the person doesn't remember anything but few random fragments from his/her past life. For example immediate memory clears in about 5 minutes. So on an average day (s)he may ask the same question(s) about 192 times every day of the year. And that is if (s)he is not too afraid to go to sleep. Also when (s)he doesn't remember anything that has happened just 5 minutes ago, (s)he starts to fear (and walking on your footsteps almost 24/7 which is a bit creepy), do strange things (like wear underwear on top of outdoor clothes), sometimes when (s)he isn't afraid (s)he may start walking in a random direction and get lost if you are not constantly watching and imagine all sorts of things. In effect (s)he becomes an empty shell that resembles a human but there is very little left inside.

 

[turbo]

True, and that's where the 24/7 care comes in. If someone were not there, my mother-in law would forget to take her medications entirely, or take them too frequently, because she can't remember having taking them on schedule. Having medication times written on a calendar, checking them off, etc won't help because she won't remember to check the calendar, and doesn't know what day of the week it is.

Sometimes she wants to get dressed, lays out a bunch of clothing, and wonders why there are clothes strewed all around. In weather like we're having now, death from hypothermia is a real threat to people with dementia, especially when they decide to go for a walk outside in their pajamas. Someone has got to be there 24/7 just for her own well-being.

 

[baywax]

I doesn't work that way. When dementia comes, there is no way to stop it.

I'm talking about preventing the onset of dementia by keeping the mind active throughout your life. Too many people let the television do the thinking for them, or just don't bother to read or debate issues with other people. This behavior practically ensures a person will be locked up in a condition like dementia. That and eating mad cow burgers.

 

[misgfool]

I'm talking about preventing the onset of dementia by keeping the mind active throughout your life. Too many people let the television do the thinking for them, or just don't bother to read or debate issues with other people. This behavior practically ensures a person will be locked up in a condition like dementia. That and eating mad cow burgers.

I'm not sure what causes dementia, do you any studies on this topic? Also I don't doubt that you wouldn't be able to delay it a few years, but if it's coming there really is no stopping it. To my knowledge dementia is not a result of eating mad cow meat. There is some other disease related to those burgers.

 

[baywax]

I'm not sure what causes dementia, do you any studies on this topic? Also I don't doubt that you wouldn't be able to delay it a few years, but if it's coming there really is no stopping it. To my knowledge dementia is not a result of eating mad cow meat. There is some other disease related to those burgers.

One of many on this site:

Senior Engagement and Dementia

Another study by Fratiglioni4 from the Karolinska Institute is reminiscent of the "use it or lose it" admonishment and provides complementary findings to the research already mentioned. In this study of 800 elders, researchers found that those who regularly engaged in activities that were socially interactive, intellectually challenging, and physically involved fared the best in keeping dementia at bay. Examples of these engagements include activities such as ballroom dancing, playing golf, or bowling, or even bingo.

http://ccn.aacnjournals.org/cgi/content/full/24/5/8

It appears there is some linkage to obesity as well.

A British study shows that drinking wine will help delay the onset of dementia... I don't know if its the properties of the wine or the effects on the inhibitions (talking more, interacting better) that helps the brain along

Drink wine to avoid dementia

London, Dec 29: Drinking a small glass of wine a day could delay the onset of dementia in women, according to a new study.

Dementia is a degenerative condition that affects memory, attention, language and problem solving

For the study, researchers at the University of Glasgow analysed the performance of more than 5,800 people aged from 70 to 82 in a range of memory and language tests.

The results among male participants were similar, but women who consumed between one and seven units of alcohol a week performed significantly better than those who rarely drank or were teetotal.

The researchers concluded that drinking a small amount might delay cognitive decline and the onset of dementia.

http://www.zeenews.com/life-style/etc/2008-12-29/494695news.html

 

[misgfool]

.

I'll just say that those are bold words from a person with little experience. But there is nothing fun in watching for years your close ones slowly turning into dust.

 

[baywax]

I'll just say that those are bold words from a person with little experience. But there is nothing fun in watching for years your close ones slowly turning into dust.

Little experience? I don't know where you get your information.

 

[misgfool]

Little experience? I don't know where you get your information.

I have a snitch. No, but I'm fairly certain that you wouldn't talk like that if you had experienced it.

 

[baywax]

I'm fairly certain that you wouldn't talk like that if you had experienced it.

You're right, I'd keep repeating myself.

My father fought-off dementia until the last 3 months of his life... he fought Nazis for 6 years too and still had a sense of humour. His mother didn't even recognize her children for her last 10 years. I have worked with cancer patients, brain cancer included, for over 15 years. I have no reason to get dramatic about it... drama and seriousness do not help the family or the situation. Bringing levity to such a leveling condition is close to the best medicine.

 

[Monique]

Today I saw a television program, where they were talking about the aging society and how more and more people will become dependent on home nursing and care. As an example they showed a severely demented woman who was dependent on the care of her son, she was in a baby-like state. It reminded me about this thread and the fact that my parents signed a statement that they want to be euthanized when they ever reach the state that they become dependent on help. Does anyone have experience with that? I think it would be tremendously difficult to decide when it would be time for euthanization.

 

[Andre]

Somebody in my family is very demented, almost like vegetating. However euthanizing is out of the question, be it active or passive. Not even remotely close to being mentioned. It's not that easy when it is your own environment.

 

[wildman]

Climb mountains and avoid dementia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6c5JRGFwpM&feature=related

This is Fred Becky. He is 89 years old and going great.

 

[wolram]

My mom is 86 and still active, but a fall that resulted in heavy bruising of the shoulder bought her down mentally, plus she has the worry about dad who is also in his 80s having an operation on his hand, and my epilepsy, and to top it all her best friend just passed away.

I am doing the best i can to cheer her up, looking up old friends that have moved away, contacting other family members, people she would like to hear from, and doing any chores i can.

I think at times like this friend and family are the most important boost for mental health,
my mom and dad are the most important thing in the world to me, so i will do what ever i can to keep them healthy and happy.

 

[baywax]

My mom is 86 and still active, but a fall that resulted in heavy bruising of the shoulder bought her down mentally, plus she has the worry about dad who is also in his 80s having an operation on his hand, and my epilepsy, and to top it all her best friend just passed away.

I am doing the best i can to cheer her up, looking up old friends that have moved away, contacting other family members, people she would like to hear from, and doing any chores i can.

I think at times like this friend and family are the most important boost for mental health,
my mom and dad are the most important thing in the world to me, so i will do what ever i can to keep them healthy and happy.

Wolram... good work man! Keep your mom doing some physio with her shoulder. Sports medicine dictates that you have to strengthen the muscle surrounding the injury in order to support the healing of the injury. Strengthening the surrounding muscle means very minor excercises that push any pain only to "4" out of "10" on the pain scale. Each time she does a lift or isometric contraction... the level 4 will be a higher level of strength. And plenty of water to wash out the bruise. Also... to keep the blues away... vitamin D is proven to elevate mood as well as remedy MS and bone and tissue issues. Its cheap and totally effective with no side effects. Look it up!

 

[Monique]

Somebody in my family is very demented, almost like vegetating. However euthanizing is out of the question, be it active or passive. Not even remotely close to being mentioned. It's not that easy when it is your own environment.

But what if official doctor forms are signed that state the conditions when euthanasia should be performed. I'm not in the situation right now that I need to discuss it with a doctor, but it is something to be aware of.

A sad story is that of a friend of my mother who was in her late 40s or early 50s. The woman one day suffered a brain hemorrhage, she was in a bad condition but after some time she was able to communicate. She had a bad relationship with her husband and daughter, her hospitalization worsened the situation. My mother basically was the only one who came to visit her. One day she stopped talking and refused to eat or drink, it was clear she wanted to die. The doctors could do nothing, the only thing they could do is respect her decision to not eat or drink. It took a week for her to die due to dehydration.

 

[turbo]

My wife and I both have living wills and we have specified that no "extraordinary measures" be taken to extend our lives. Neither of us wants to see the other on a ventilator with a feeding tube. It won't be easy for either of us to let go, but sometimes we have to respect the dignity of the individual and set aside our selfish tendencies.

 

[Borek]

I'm talking about preventing the onset of dementia by keeping the mind active throughout your life. Too many people let the television do the thinking for them, or just don't bother to read or debate issues with other people. This behavior practically ensures a person will be locked up in a condition like dementia. That and eating mad cow burgers.

My Mom calls me several times a day asking what day of the week it is, where is her green skirt and so on. She has a PhD in electrical engineering, she was always very active intelectually, both in terms of her work and her private activities. It didn't helped her. I must admit I find your post offensive.

 

[baywax]

Euthanasia and its counterpart, legal murder or the death sentence, are tricky areas. Often the paperwork does not reflect the sentiments of the person in a position to be killed. The whole matter requires many witnesses to the signing of documents to ensure 'soundness of mind'. Then we need a legal definition of 'sound mind and body'. Someone depressed by their condition or someone depressed thinking about what their condition might be in the future may be more easily coaxed into signing "do not resuscitate" orders or worse "kill me if I drool more than the great dane" order.

I don't agree with legalized death sentences in prison or in hospitals. This is because to many times there is corruption, error or misconception involved.

I had a friend who was quadriplegic after a car accident. She spent at least 35 years in that condition... managing quite well with all our help and camaraderie. But as time took a toll on her butt and her skin slowly didn't respond to cures for bed and wheelchair sores... and after many trips to the hospital for other ailments... she decided she was through with life and wanted to move on.

So, in her hospital room, where she was plugged into breathing machines after a poor winter... we gave her the cable that powered the machine... and she was strong enough to pull it out of the wall... and she left us there under her own steam. Not at the hands of a nurse injecting her or some other extra personal arrangement. It was her own decision to act upon.

The Inuit people knew how to take care of their loved ones. When the time came that they were no longer useful to their folk... they wandered out on the ice and enticed a polar bear to eat them.

 

[turbo]

My Mom calls me several times a day asking what day of the week it is, where is her green skirt and so on. She has a PhD in electrical engineering, she was always very active intelectually, both in terms of her work and her private activities. It didn't helped her. I must admit I find your post offensive.

The notion that people who are afflicted with dementia could have staved it off with mental/physical activities does smack of "blaming the victim". My mother-in-law was always pretty active for her age, and was the Town Clerk and Tax Collector long after normal retirement age. She's in her nineties now, and was pretty self-reliant until earlier this year.

I call my father several times a week and visit every week or two just to keep an eye on him. and take him some home-made food, pickles, and other treats. He's 83 and walks several miles every day. He's obese, with high cholesterol and blood pressure, and arthritis and gout. Still, he can out-work people half his age and he is a real bear at the poker-table. When he starts losing consistently at poker, I'll worry about his mental abilities. Right now, he measures his winnings by stashing his quarters in coffee cans and weighing them on an antique scale. Judging from good-natured complaints that filter back to me from his poker-buddies, he's still doing really well.

 

[baywax]

My Mom calls me several times a day asking what day of the week it is, where is her green skirt and so on. She has a PhD in electrical engineering, she was always very active intelectually, both in terms of her work and her private activities. It didn't helped her. I must admit I find your post offensive.

I'm sorry to offend. This is not my intention.
I'm trying to help people "not get old if they can help it".
I think I linked a study or two to verify that physical and mental activity is shown to be factor in maintaining normal lucidity.

I'm not blaming anyone for their lifestyle. I'm hoping to help people avoid dementia and so on.

I know this is all a sensitive subject since it sounds like many of you are taking care of people very close to you who are going through some major changes. My sensitivity to your situation may be lacking because I've had both parents move on themselves, with all of what many would consider "the indignities".

But, I remain staunchly convinced that if you think they are suffering from "indignities" and so on... then you probably think living altogether is an indignity because what these people are experiencing is life... and we need to celebrate that... not bewail away the time you have left together.

 

[Ouabache]

I have a musician friend, who's family (parents, older siblings) experienced Alzheimer's with dementia-like symptoms. Whenever he joined our musical jams, he always joked, making us laugh to tears. One self-propheced line he liked to tell...

I don't believe I will mind, when its my turn. I'll enjoy every day, because I will continually be making new friends. (the same ones).

Within a year, he already reached that stage. It was tough watching him go down hill so quickly.