Possible to find a gradient system for this?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jamin2112
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Gradient System
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a system of differential equations represented by x' and y', with a focus on determining whether it contains a limit cycle. Participants reference a theorem regarding closed orbits in gradient systems and explore the implications of defining a potential function V.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants attempt to apply the theorem related to gradient systems and question the correct formulation of the potential function V. There is exploration of how to integrate certain expressions and what they imply for V.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights into the structure of the potential function and its derivatives. Some guidance has been offered regarding integration techniques and the relationship between the system's equations and the potential function.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about integration and the specific forms of the potential function, indicating a need for further exploration of these concepts within the constraints of the problem.

Jamin2112
Messages
973
Reaction score
12

Homework Statement



Does

x' = xex2tanh(x+y) + (1/2)ex2sech2(x+y)
y' = (1/2)ex2sech2(x+y)

contain a limit cycle? Possibly-relevant theorem below.

Homework Equations



Theorem. Closed orbits are impossible in gradient systems.

Definition. If x' = -ΔV for some cont. diff'ble, single-valued scalar func. V(x), then such a system is called a gradient system with potential function V.

The Attempt at a Solution



So the problem looks like a setup to apply this theorem ... but I can't figure out how. I've started at it for like 1 hr.

Thanks in advance.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Jamin2112 said:
Definition. If x' = -ΔV for some cont. diff'ble, single-valued scalar func. V(x),
You mean -∇V, right?
 
Jamin2112 said:
y' = (1/2)ex2sech2(x+y)
Since you want that to look like -∂V/∂y, what does it suggest for V?
 
haruspex said:
Since you want that to look like -∂V/∂y, what does it suggest for V?

That V(x,y) should contain ∫-∂V/∂y dy somewhere
 
Jamin2112 said:
That V(x,y) should contain ∫-∂V/∂y dy somewhere

But I don't know how to integrate that. I can't even find it on an integral chart.
 
Jamin2112 said:
(1/2)ex2sech2(x+y)
But I don't know how to integrate that. I can't even find it on an integral chart.
Remember, you're only trying to integrate that wrt y. You should find sech2 on the chart. If not, what's the integral of sec2?
 
haruspex said:
Remember, you're only trying to integrate that wrt y. You should find sech2 on the chart. If not, what's the integral of sec2?

Ah, okay. So I know, for one thing, that V(x,y) somehow involves (1/2)xex2tanh(x+y). And ... I see it now. If V(x,y) = (1/2)xex2tanh(x+y), then ∂V/∂x = xex2tanh(x+y) + (1/2)xex2sech2(x+y). But, I want <-∂V/∂x, -∂V/∂y> = < xex2tanh(x+y) + (1/2)ex2sech2(x+y), (1/2)ex2sech2(x+y)>.
 
Last edited:
Ah, wait. I could do

V(x,y) = (1/2)ex2tanh(-(x+y)). Then

-∂V/∂x = -[xex2 * tanh(-(x+y)) + (1/2)ex2 * -sech2(-(x+y))]
= xex2 * tanh(x+y) + (1/2)ex2 * sech2(x+y)

since sech is even and tanh is odd.
 
That's it.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K