Potential Difference and electric shock

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of electric shock in relation to potential difference, particularly why individuals do not experience electric shock when holding a high potential wire without grounding. Participants explore concepts related to electric circuits, body potential, and the conditions necessary for current flow.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that electricity travels from higher potential to lower potential, questioning why electric shock does not occur when holding a high potential wire while isolated from the ground.
  • Others argue that being in the air, which is an insulator, creates an open circuit, preventing current flow.
  • There is a claim that the body's potential is lower than that of the high potential wire, suggesting that electrons should flow into the body.
  • Some participants emphasize the necessity of a closed circuit for current to flow, stating that without a connection to a lower potential, no current flows and thus no shock is felt.
  • One participant mentions that when connecting an object to a battery terminal, it gains the same potential, raising the question of whether a shock should be felt.
  • Another participant notes that lower voltages may not overcome the body's skin resistance, preventing current flow and sensation of shock.
  • A later reply introduces the idea that an initial flow of current occurs until the body reaches the same potential as the wire, and that the amount of charge flowing can depend on various factors, including the voltage difference and the body's capacitance.
  • One participant shares an example of workers in helicopters near high voltage power lines, suggesting that current can flow even without grounding.
  • Another participant discusses the variability of sensations from electric shocks, noting that contact area affects the experience of shock.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the conditions under which electric shock occurs, and the discussion remains unresolved with differing opinions on the mechanics of electric potential and current flow.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention factors such as body capacitance, skin resistance, and the influence of moisture on current flow, indicating that these elements may complicate the understanding of electric shock phenomena.

Elsa1234
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Electricity travels from higher potential to lower potential then why don't we get an electric shock while holding aa high potential wire without touching the Earth ( we are also at lower potential)
 
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Elsa1234 said:
Electricity travels from higher potential to lower potential then why don't we get an electric shock while holding aa high potential wire without touching the Earth ( we are also at lower potential)
Because while not touching the earth, you are floating in the air which it is an insulator thus you have an open circuit.
 
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tonyjk said:
Because while not touching the earth, you are floating in the air which it is an insulator thus you have an open circuit.
Isn't our body's potential at lower level than the high potential wire to make the electrons flow from there inside us
 
Elsa1234 said:
Isn't our body's potential at lower level than the high potential wire to make the electrons flow from there inside us
Yes, but you need a closed circuit to make the current flow
 
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But when we connect an object to anyone of the terminals of a battery , it gains the same potential (maybe due to static electricity), we should at least feel some sort of shock
 
Elsa1234 said:
it gains the same potential
You have to connect a circuit in order to detect the potential. For example if you connect a capacitor to only 1 terminal of a battery it will not charge.
 
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You are instantly at the same potential as the hot wire you have touched, but as their is no connection by your body to a lower potential no current flows and therefore you feel no shock.
 
Elsa1234 said:
Isn't our body's potential at lower level than the high potential wire to make the electrons flow from there inside us

yes it is

tonyjk said:
Because while not touching the earth, you are floating in the air which it is an insulator thus you have an open circuit.

wud-wurks said:
You are instantly at the same potential as the hot wire you have touched, but as their is no connection by your body to a lower potential no current flows and therefore you feel no shock.

careful with those answers, ... they are not correct ... there is an initial flow of current into you till you gain the same potential as the wire you touch. Depending on the voltages involved will be what determines if you feel the zap or not

watching helicopter guys working on EHT power lines is a classic example of this. The helicopter isn't grounded, yet there is a large flow of current between the helicopter and worker as they come up to the potential of the power line
see this video...


Dave
 
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Elsa1234 said:
But when we connect an object to anyone of the terminals of a battery , it gains the same potential (maybe due to static electricity), we should at least feel some sort of shock

The problem here is that with smaller voltages around 40V or less, there is not enough voltage to overcome the body's skin (dry) resistance and allow a current to flow

hence you don't feel anything from a say 12V car battery
wet skin is a different matter and maybe you have briefly touched a small PP3 9V battery to your tongue and felt the sharp tingling ??Dave
 
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Elsa1234 said:
why don't we get an electric shock while holding aa high potential wire without touching the Earth ( we are also at lower potential)
We can and do. When we connect our(isolated)selves to ANY potential not at our own, a charge will flow until we are at that potential. IF the potential is high enough (different enough from where we started) there will be enough charge flowing to give us a shock. For lower potentials, the charge will be small and the current flowing onto us will be very small because I = V/R. The charge that flows onto us will be proportional to the Capacitance of our bodies (as in charging any capacitor). The capacitance of a human body is around 100pF and the contact resistance can be high or low depending on how moist our skin is or if we're standing in a bucket of salt water!. 100pF is pretty low in terms of circuit components - compare it with a super capacitor with 1F capacitance or one of 1000μF in a hi fi amplifier. We just don't take much charge on board except from a very high potential object.
The way our body reacts to 'shocks' in general is very complicated and the effects can be very variable.
Having played with high voltages (safely engineered ones, I must add) I can tell you that touching a charged Van Der Graaff ball or a Tesla Coil is much less unpleasant if you make actual contact via a metal rod. This is because the shock is particularly noticeable when the area of contact is small. Holding a metal rod will spread the contact all over your palm and you may not feel a thing,
 
  • #11
davenn said:
with smaller voltages around 40V or less, there is not enough voltage to overcome the body's skin (dry) resistance and allow a current to flow
It's all proportional. Not 'no current' - just a small current.
 

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