Potential energy of quadrupole moments

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential energy associated with quadrupole moments, particularly focusing on the interaction between two quadrupole moments at a large distance. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of this potential energy and inquire about related concepts, such as dipole-quadrupole interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks an equation for the potential energy of two quadrupole moments, specifying that they have no total charge or dipole moments.
  • Another participant provides the formula for the electrostatic potential energy between two quadrupoles, detailing the use of a symmetric traceless tensor Q and the resulting equation involving multiple indices.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the use of four indices in the tensor representation, questioning why more than three are needed for the three Cartesian coordinates.
  • Another participant requests the dipole-quadrupole energy formula, indicating they have the dipole moment and quadrupole moment terms but are unsure how to calculate their interaction energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion includes multiple viewpoints, particularly regarding the mathematical representation of quadrupole moments and the inquiry into dipole-quadrupole interactions. There is no consensus on the dipole-quadrupole energy formula, as it remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the number of indices used in the tensor representation and the specifics of calculating interaction energies between different multipole moments.

Gavroy
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hi

i am looking for an equation that gives me the potential energy of 2 quadrupole moments and their mutual distance is assumed to be large.

and they have no total charge or dipole moments.

does such an equation exist?
 
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Are you sure you want to see this? It's rather complicated. Let's write down the dipole-dipole interaction first. An electric dipole moment is described by a vector p. The electrostatic potential energy between two dipoles p and p' a distance r apart is

W = (p.p' -3 (n.p)(n.p'))/r3

where n is the unit vector pointing from one dipole to the other.

Ok similarly, the quadrupole moment of an object is described by a symmetric traceless tensor Q. The electrostatic potential energy between two quadrupoles Q and Q' is given by

W = (Q:Q' -10 n.Q.Q'.n + 35/3 (n.Q.n)(n.Q'.n))/r5

Maybe you'd rather see this written out explicitly with all the indices.

Φ = (QijQ'ij - 10 niQijQ'jknk + 35/3 niQijnj nkQ'klnl)/r5
 
Bill_K said:
Are you sure you want to see this? It's rather complicated. Let's write down the dipole-dipole interaction first. An electric dipole moment is described by a vector p. The electrostatic potential energy between two dipoles p and p' a distance r apart is

W = (p.p' -3 (n.p)(n.p'))/r3

where n is the unit vector pointing from one dipole to the other.

Ok similarly, the quadrupole moment of an object is described by a symmetric traceless tensor Q. The electrostatic potential energy between two quadrupoles Q and Q' is given by

W = (Q:Q' -10 n.Q.Q'.n + 35/3 (n.Q.n)(n.Q'.n))/r5

Maybe you'd rather see this written out explicitly with all the indices.

Φ = (QijQ'ij - 10 niQijQ'jknk + 35/3 niQijnj nkQ'klnl)/r5

thank you this exactly what i needed!
 
oh,

could you explain to me, why there are 4 indices? i,j,k and l

i thought that this tensor would only use 3 cartesian coordinates?

then why are there 4 different indices?
 
Hi, this is very helpful.
could anyone tell me the dipole-quadrupole energy formula?
I have the dipole moment and explicit quadrupole moment terms but aren't sure how to calculate their interaction energy!
 

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