Potetial energy change during heating

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the changes in potential energy during the heating of solids, specifically in the context of thermal expansion. Participants explore the relationship between kinetic energy and potential energy in internal energy, questioning how these concepts apply to solids like iron when heated.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the idea that only kinetic energy increases with heating, while questioning the role of potential energy in the expansion of solids. There is exploration of whether potential energy changes during heating and how this relates to intermolecular forces.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants offering differing perspectives on the relationship between kinetic and potential energy. Some suggest that potential energy must increase with expansion, while others express uncertainty about the implications of this on calculations involving heat.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating assumptions about ideal gases versus solids, and how these assumptions affect the understanding of energy changes during heating. There is a mention of specific heat capacity and its relation to both kinetic and potential energy, indicating a need for clarity on these concepts.

sgstudent
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Homework Statement


when heating i learned that only the kinetic energy component of internal energy increases. However, I also learned that potential energy is related to distance between the particles. So when i heat some solid and it expands does it mean the potential energy has changed as well? I don't think that is the reason for the expansion.


Homework Equations


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The Attempt at a Solution


i understand that it moves faster but i don't think the amplitude of vibration should increase as i don't think the potential energy increases.

Thanks for the help!
 
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sgstudent said:
... when heating i learned that only the kinetic energy component of internal energy increases ...

Maybe you read the above in a context where an ideal gas is assumed. In an ideal gas it is assumed that there are no intermolecular forces and so there is no potential energy.
 
grzz said:
Maybe you read the above in a context where an ideal gas is assumed. In an ideal gas it is assumed that there are no intermolecular forces and so there is no potential energy.

But what about solids? When I heat iron it expands but its potential energy should not increase so what's letting it expand?
 
If the iron expands its potential energy increases.
 
grzz said:
If the iron expands its potential energy increases.

So even as it heats up the potential energy changes as well? That's possible?
 
If the iron expands, the interatomic distances must have increased. But atoms attract each other. So the potential energy must increase.
 
grzz said:
If the iron expands, the interatomic distances must have increased. But atoms attract each other. So the potential energy must increase.

oh so when we calculate Q=mcΔT it is not complete since we have not taken potential energy into account?
 
When the temperature of a solid is increased, both internal KE and internal PE increase and the specific heat capacity c of a solid must take care of both these increases.
 

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