Primes in set of rational numbers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the identification of prime elements within the set of rational numbers defined as R = { a/b : a, b ∈ ℤ, b ≡ 1 (mod 2) }. Participants explore the properties of primes in this context, the nature of ideals, and the structure of R as a principal ideal domain (PID).

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant identifies the rational number 2 as a prime in R and discusses the conditions under which other elements may be considered prime.
  • Another participant proposes a form for elements in R and analyzes the conditions for primality based on divisibility, concluding that only associates of 2 are prime.
  • Several participants question the relevance of modular arithmetic in the context of identifying primes and suggest that all primes in ℤ should also be in R.
  • A participant clarifies that the definition of prime elements may differ in the context of R compared to the integers, noting that some integers considered prime may not retain that status in R.
  • There is a contention regarding whether all usual odd primes from ℤ are units in R, with differing opinions on their status as primes in this domain.
  • A participant references external material to support the discussion about prime elements in rings.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of prime elements in R, with no consensus reached on whether all usual primes from ℤ remain prime in this domain. The discussion reflects multiple competing perspectives on the definitions and properties of primes within the specified set.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on definitions of primality in different mathematical contexts and the implications of these definitions on the identification of prime elements in R. There are unresolved questions regarding the status of certain integers as primes in this specific ring.

math_grl
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There was a part c and d from a question I couldn't answer.
Let [tex]R = \{ a/b : a, b \in \mathbb{Z}, b \equiv 1 (\mod 2) \}[/tex].

a) was find the units, b) was show that [tex]R\setminus U(R)[/tex] is a maximal ideal. Both I was successful. But

c) is find all primes, which I believe i only found one...the rational number 2.

d) find all ideals and show that [tex]R[/tex] is a PID.

Any help would be appreciated.
 
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c) Write an element,
[tex]p = 2^n \frac{a}{b}[/tex]
where a and b are odd. If n>1, then let, [itex]x = 2^{n-1}[/itex] and [itex]y =2[/itex]. Then [itex]p | xy[/itex], but [itex]p \not | x[/itex] and [itex]p \not| y[/itex]. Thus p is not a prime if n>1.
If n=1, and, p|xy, then either x or y must have a factor 2. Assume WLOG that 2|x, then p|x.
If n=0, then p is a unit.
Thus only associates of 2 are prime.

d) For some ideal X of R let n be the largest non-negative integer such that [itex]2^n[/itex] divides all elements in X. Then [itex]2^n \in X[/itex] since there exists odd integers a,b such that [itex]2^n \frac{a}{b} \in X[/itex], but then [itex]2^n\frac{a}{b}\frac{b}{a}=2^n[/itex]. We have [itex]X=(2^n)[/itex].
 
doesn't 1 = 1 mod 2?
 
ice109 said:
doesn't 1 = 1 mod 2?

Yes this is true, but how does it relate to anything in any of the previous posts?
 
rasmhop said:
Yes this is true, but how does it relate to anything in any of the previous posts?

i didn't read your proof but doesn't my comment imply that for every prime p in Z the element r=p/1 is in R
 
ice109 said:
i didn't read your proof but doesn't my comment imply that for every prime p in Z the element r=p/1 is in R

I misunderstood your comment. math_grl very likely means prime element in the general sense of prime elements in an integral domain. In an integral domain R we say that a non-unit p is a prime element if p|ab imply p|a or p|b. This is equivalent to the ordinary notion of prime numbers in Z, but it need not be the same for other rings.

In the R given by math_grl 3 for instance is not a prime because it's a unit (i.e. 1|3 and 3 |1). To see this note that 3 = 3*1 so 1|3 and 1 = 3*1/3 so 3|1. On the other hand 6 is prime in R.
 
But ice109's point is, I believe, that all of the usual primes still are primes in this domain.
 
HallsofIvy said:
But ice109's point is, I believe, that all of the usual primes still are primes in this domain.

But they aren't. All the usual odd primes in Z are units in this domain and therefore not primes. This is due to the fact that if p is an odd prime in Z, then 1/p is in the domain and since p(1/p)=1 we have p|1. He is of course completely right if prime element is taken to mean prime element in Z, but as we're working in R it would seem natural to consider prime elements in R.
 

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