Probabilities Involving Bridge

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating probabilities in the card game bridge, specifically focusing on scenarios involving the distribution of cards among players and the characteristics of hands. The problems include finding the probability of having a specific number of spades, determining the likelihood of being void in at least one suit, and analyzing hands that contain certain high-ranking cards.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the interpretation of the probability questions, particularly regarding the distribution of spades between players. There are discussions about the total number of ways to deal cards and the implications of different interpretations of the problem. Some participants suggest alternative counting methods for determining hands void in suits and raise questions about the complexity of inclusion-exclusion principles in probability.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants offering different perspectives on the problems. Some guidance has been provided regarding simpler methods for calculating probabilities, but there is no explicit consensus on the correct approach to all questions. Participants continue to clarify terminology and assumptions related to the game of bridge.

Contextual Notes

There are ongoing discussions about the definitions of terms used in bridge, such as "void in a suit" and the structure of a hand. Participants also note the complexity of counting methods required for certain probability calculations, indicating that some assumptions may need to be revisited.

e(ho0n3
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Homework Statement
(1) In a hand of bridge, find the probability that you have 5 spades and your partner has the remaining 8.

(2) Compute the probability that a bridge hand is void in at least one suit.

(3) Compute the probability that a hand of 13 cards contains:
a. the ace and the king of at least on suit;
b. all 4 of at least 1 of the 13 denominations.​


The attempt at a solution
Some quick info. on bridge: a hand has 13 cards and there are four players: N, S, E, W.

(1) The wording of the problem is confusing. I will assume that it asks for the probability that one player has 5 spades and another has the remaining 8.

There are n = C(52,13) * C(39,13) * C(26,13) * C(13,13) ways of dealing the cards.

How many ways are there of dealing the cards such that N gets 5 spades and S gets the remaining 8? Answer: C(13,5) * C(39, 8) * C(8,8) * C(31,5) * C(26,13) * C(13,13). Now if N gets 8 spades and S 5, the answer is C(13,8) * C(39,5) * C(5,5) * C(34,8) * C(26,13) * C(13,13). Both the former and the latter products are equal. Call it m. As a matter of fact, for any of the 12 permutations of two players, there will be m ways of dealing the cards such that one gets 5 spades and the other 8. That's a total of 12m.

The probability sought is 12m/n. The book states that the probability is just m/n. The book seems to be ignoring who gets the spades and I don't know why.

(2)
If a hand is void in at least one suit, then all cards are from one, two or three suits. There are 4 hands in which all the cards are from one suit, there are

\binom{4}{2} \sum_{i=1}^{12}\binom{13}{i}\binom{13}{13 - i}

hands in which the cards are all from two suits and there are

\binom{4}{3} \sum_{i=1}^{12} \binom{13}{i}\sum_{j=1}^{13 - i}\binom{13}{j}\binom{13}{13 - i - j}

in which all the cards are from three suits. Divide these by \binom{52}{13} and add them to produce the answer. The sums are difficult to evaluate so is there an easier method to derive the answer?

(3) a. I employ a reasoning similar to problem (2): If a hand contains at least an ace and king of one suit, then it contains an ace and king of exactly one, two, three or four suits. The problem I face when counting is that a hand may contain the ace xor king of other suits.

b. Ditto.
 
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e(ho0n3 said:
assume that it asks for the probability that one player has 5 spades and another has the remaining 8
No, it is specifically one pair, you and your partner.
e(ho0n3 said:
The book seems to be ignoring who gets the spades and I don't know why.
It further specifies that you have the 5 and your partner the 8, so it is just m/n.
e(ho0n3 said:
hands in which the cards are all from two suits
There's a much easier way. There are C(39,13) hands which omit a particular suit, (26,13) that omit a particular two suits.

For (3), apply the principle of inclusion and exclusion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclusion–exclusion_principle
 
@haruspex do you know bridge? I think in order one to solve this problem must know the basics of bridge right?
 
Delta2 said:
@haruspex do you know bridge? I think in order one to solve this problem must know the basics of bridge right?
I do, but all you need to know in addition to the info in post #1 is that the cards in a deck have 13 denominations; that there are four suits each containing one card of each denomination; that 'void in a suit' means the hand has none of that suit; that two of the denominations are Ace and King.
 
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So basically the deck is isomorphic to an ordinary deck except that you call the 13 numbers denominations and the hands suits?
 
No, the deck is an ordinary deck with only 9 numbers [2, 10]. The other denominations of a deck (or "pack" in the UK) are J, Q, K and A, which are not numbers.

There are 4 suits, C, D, H and S. The cards each player is dealt is called their hand: this is the meaning of "hand" in q2.

A "hand" can also mean a whole round in which all 4 players are dealt 13 cards and play proceeds until the round is finished: this is the meaning of "hand" in q1.
 
In other words the cards and the terminology is exactly the same as most other games played with a 52 card deck, with specific additions such as "partner".
 
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haruspex said:
There's a much easier way. There are C(39,13) hands which omit a particular suit, (26,13) that omit a particular two suits.
We don't care about voids in two suits, so the answer is even simpler.
 
pbuk said:
We don't care about voids in two suits, so the answer is even simpler.
Not quite that simple. There are C(39,13) hands which omit a particular suit, but the question says "at least one".
 
  • #10
haruspex said:
Not quite that simple. There are C(39,13) hands which omit a particular suit, but the question says "at least one".
Of those ## \binom{39}{13} ## hands, some of those omit a second suit. Why does this matter?
 
  • #11
pbuk said:
Of those ## \binom{39}{13} ## hands, some of those omit a second suit. Why does this matter?
At least one means void in S, H, D, C or some combination. ## \binom{39}{13} ## is the number of ways of being void in S. So to allow other voids we can multiply by four, but then we have overcounted, so need to subtract a bit, etc.
 
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  • #12
haruspex said:
So to allow other voids we can multiply by four, but then we have overcounted, so need to subtract a bit, etc.
Ah yes, good catch.
 
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