Problem interpreting course notes - 3D wave equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around interpreting course notes related to the 3D wave equation, particularly in the context of spherical symmetry. Participants are exploring the mathematical formulation and implications of the wave equation in spherical coordinates, addressing both conceptual and technical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the lecturer's introduction of spherical symmetry and the definition of Ψ, questioning the relevance of angular sections.
  • Another participant suggests that understanding "spherical symmetry" is crucial and proposes that the wave equation can be expressed in terms of spherical-polar coordinates.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the form of the wave equation in polar coordinates and the origin of the 1/r term in Ψ.
  • One participant attempts to derive the wave equation from the Laplace operator but encounters difficulties with the signs in their calculations.
  • Another participant advises substituting the spherical coordinate form of the Laplace operator into the wave equation to achieve the desired formulation.
  • A later reply notes that the 1/r term is part of the Laplace operator and emphasizes the need for solutions to account for energy conservation by reducing amplitude with increasing radius.
  • One participant raises a question about writing solutions for waves in a spherical cavity, suggesting that using Cartesian coordinates would complicate the answers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of spherical coordinates and the role of the Laplace operator in the wave equation. However, there is no consensus on the specific derivation steps or the incorporation of the 1/r term in Ψ, indicating ongoing uncertainty and exploration.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their understanding of the derivation process and the mathematical steps involved. There are unresolved questions regarding the specific formulation of the wave equation in spherical coordinates and the implications of the 1/r term.

Darren93
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I've been stuck trying to figure out what's going on in a particular section of my notes for the last couple days. The biggest issue is the lecturer has just not explained where the example has come from and what it represents. I thought I would post the relevant section here and see if anyone could recognise it immediately. He just introduced the 3D wave equation which I understood but then stated the case of spherical symmetry without any explanation. I was wondering why he defined Ψ in the manor he did and had no clue why he involved an angular section. Does anybody know what's going on? The note section is attached
 

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Your lecturer expected you would know what "spherical symmetry" means.
Start with that - how would you write a sine wave that propagates outwards in all directions from a point?

The lecturer introduced the angle bits for the same reason the radius bit was introduced: because it is more convenient to use spherical-polar coordinates. You should have met these already. The notes have misleadingly placed the bit with the angles off to one side - it belongs on the RHS of the first line (before the equals sign) and it is the rest of what ##\nabla^2## looks like in spherical coordinates.

If the wave travels equally in all directions, then does it vary with angle?
 
Thanks for the reply. I understand that he has swapped to spherical coordinates and placed a spherical symmetric condition on the equation, I just have no idea how he got the result. What is the form of the wave equation in polar coordinates anyway. Plus where did the 1/r section on Ψ come from?
 
This is my thinking so far if Ψ=f(r)/r

then d2Ψ/dr2 =2r-3f(r) -2r-2f'(r) +r-1f''(r)

You could then substitute in dΨ/dr values but I have a - sign on the f'(r) function and can't quite do that. If it was positive it would leave me with 2/r * dΨ/dr +1/r *f''(r) which is somewhat close to the answer but completely wrong. I probably don't need to know the intermediate steps but Its something I've spent so much time on now that I'm not really wanting to move on.
 
You already have the wave equation in terms of the Laplace operator and a time derivative - so just substitute the spherical coordinate form of the Laplace operator in and you have the wave equation in spherical coordinates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace_operator#Three_dimensions
... the 1/r thing is part of the Laplace operator.
 
Thanks very much, I was trying to solve for the Laplace operator on my own and just making a mess. Seeing it written out like that makes a great deal of sense and I understand now why the solution is what it is. I'm not certain as to how the 1/r gets incorporated into the Ψ expression but at this point it's no major concern. Thanks very much you helped me quite a bit.
 
There is a 1/r term in the laplacian - but the solution to the wave equation for spherical waves must reduce amplitude with increasing radius in order to conserve energy.
 
How would you write solutions for waves in a spherical cavity? You could use x, y, z coordinates, but the answers would be messy as hell.
 

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