Problem with when to use Force and Energy. What compresses spring/

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving a mass sliding down an inclined plane and compressing a spring at the bottom. The subject area includes concepts of forces, energy conservation, and Hooke's Law in the context of mechanical energy and spring compression.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to apply both force and energy conservation methods to determine spring compression but questions the validity of their approach compared to a teacher's suggested method. Participants discuss the relationship between force and compression, particularly in the context of Hooke's Law.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring different methods to solve the problem, with some providing insights into the mechanics of spring compression and the role of varying forces during the compression process. There is an ongoing inquiry into the assumptions made regarding the relationship between force and compression.

Contextual Notes

The problem includes specific parameters such as mass, incline angle, height, and spring constant, which are critical to the discussion but may not be fully understood by all participants. There is also a mention of a typo regarding the equation format that may have caused confusion.

physicsissohard
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Homework Statement
A mass of 20 kg is released from rest from the top of a fixed inclined plane of inclination 53 deg and height 4 m. At the bottom of the inclined plane, there is a massless spring of length 2 m. Find the maximum compression of the spring.(k=10000 N/m) take g=10m/s2
Relevant Equations
ME1=ME2
This is how I tried to do it, which is the most direct. The force that the mass exerts on the spring is mgsin(53). and I equated that to kx. and found x. but apparently, this is wrong and the teacher told me a different method.
(ME)1=(ME)2 due to conservation of mechanical energy
20∗10∗4=20∗10(2−x)∗0.8+0+0.5∗10000∗x^2 on LHS there is no kinetic energy and the potential energy of the block is the only thing on the left. And RHS there is no kinetic energy but the potential energy of the block and spring is there. And from here you just need to solve the quadratic. I understand this method and see nothing wrong with but I don't understand what is wrong with mine. I think I even get where the difference is coming actually. It's even more intuitive that in the second method, you observe that when the block collides with the spring it compresses very much and comes back to less than the original length, which doesn't take it into account. But I don't understand why it compresses more cuz the same force is applied, so it moves the same distance. Just can somebody elucidate why force doesn't only determine the compression? It's hookes Law I don't see what's wrong though.
 
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physicsissohard said:
Homework Statement: A mass of 20 kg is released from rest from the top of a fixed inclined plane of inclination 53 deg and height 4 m. At the bottom of the inclined plane, there is a massless spring of length 2 m. Find the maximum compression of the spring.(k=10000 N/m) take g=10m/s2
Relevant Equations: ME1=ME2

20∗10∗4=20∗10(2−x)∗0.8+0+0.5∗10000∗x220∗10∗4=20∗10(2−x)∗0.8+0+0.5∗10000∗x^2 on LHS there is no kinetic energy and the potential energy of the block is the only thing on the left.
Can you rewrite this equation using symbols first and then substitute numbers? I have a hard time deciphering expressions like 0.5∗10000∗x220∗10∗4. Also, I can see a LHS (left hand side) and a RHS (right hand side) but I also see a MHS (middle hand side). What's that about?

Please use the LaTeX editor for your equations.
 
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sry it was a typo. there is no MHS
 
physicsissohard said:
But I don't understand why it compresses more cuz the same force is applied, so it moves the same distance. Just can somebody elucidate why force doesn't only determine the compression? It's hookes Law I don't see what's wrong though.
Consider how the force with which the spring reacts changes during the distance x.
Is that force greater or lesser than kx at the beginning of the compression stroke?
 

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