Projections on Banach and Hilbert spaces

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the definitions and properties of projections in Banach and Hilbert spaces, exploring the implications of these definitions in the context of linear operators. Participants examine the conditions under which projections are defined, their boundedness, and the distinctions between the two types of spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that in a Banach space, an operator P is a projection if P^2=P, while in a Hilbert space, P must also be self-adjoint to be considered a projection.
  • Others argue that the requirement for projections to be orthogonal in Hilbert spaces is reasonable due to the existence of angles, which do not exist in Banach spaces.
  • A participant questions whether projections are required to be bounded, suggesting that linear operators in the context discussed are likely bounded linear operators.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the definition of the set of linear mappings, initially believing it to refer only to bounded mappings.
  • One participant presents a proof regarding the norm of a nonzero projection, indicating that ||P||=1 holds in Hilbert spaces but questions its validity in general inner product spaces.
  • There is a correction regarding the assumptions made in the proof, particularly concerning the self-adjoint property of P and its implications for the inner product.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and properties of projections, particularly regarding boundedness and the implications of self-adjointness. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on these topics.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about linear operators and the definitions of projections, particularly in distinguishing between bounded and unbounded operators. The proof regarding the norm of projections is also noted to be specific to Hilbert spaces, indicating potential differences in other contexts.

jostpuur
Messages
2,112
Reaction score
19
I've now encountered two different definitions for a projection.

Let X be a Banach space. An operator P on it is a projection if P^2=P.

Let H be a Hilbert space. An operator P on it is a projection if P^2=P and if P is self-adjoint.

But the Hilbert space is also a Banach space, and there's two different definitions for projections then. Are these common definitions anyway?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
in hilbert space angles make sense whilst in banach space they do not. so in hilbert space it is reasonable to require that the projections be "orthogonal" in the sense that the kernel be orthogonal to the image.

this is guaranted by making the projections self adjoint. say are your projections also required to be bounded? or is that automatic?
 
mathwonk said:
say are your projections also required to be bounded? or is that automatic?

The text mentions "bounded linear operator" once in the beginning, and from then on talks only about "linear operators". I think that linear operator here always means a bounded linear operator, so... I would interpret this so that the projections are required to be bounded, because in the definition "linear operators" are defined to be projections with P^2=P and P^*=P conditions.

Is it common to call also non-bounded linear mappings "linear operators"? hmh... oh that is common, because derivative operators are linear operators :confused:

I somehow got an impression that ||P||=1 always, but now when we started talking about this, I'm not sure how to prove this. Is this true only in inner product spaces, or in Hilbert spaces?
 
Last edited:
Argh! I think I've just lived with a misunderstanding for weeks I thought that \mathcal{L}(X,Y) is the set of bounded linear mappings, but in reality that is the set of all linear mappings?
 
L(X,Y) usually refers to the set of all linear maps from X to Y; B(X,Y) (or C(X,Y)) are the bounded ones.

The zero map is a projection (both in the Banach space and Hilbert space sense), and ||0|| = 0. On the other hand if P is a nonzero projection, then
(1) ||P|| = ||P^2|| <= ||P||^2, which implies that ||P|| >= 1; and
(2) ||x||^2 = ||Px + (1-P)x||^2 = ||Px||^2 + ||(1-P)x||^2, which implies that ||Px|| <= ||x||, and thus ||P|| <= 1.

(1) & (2) combined give us that ||P||=1. This proof is only valid on a Hilbert space, but not necessarily on a general inner product space. Do you see why?
 
morphism said:
L(X,Y) usually refers to the set of all linear maps from X to Y; B(X,Y) (or C(X,Y)) are the bounded ones.

The zero map is a projection (both in the Banach space and Hilbert space sense), and ||0|| = 0. On the other hand if P is a nonzero projection, then
(1) ||P|| = ||P^2|| <= ||P||^2, which implies that ||P|| >= 1; and
(2) ||x||^2 = ||Px + (1-P)x||^2 = ||Px||^2 + ||(1-P)x||^2, which implies that ||Px|| <= ||x||, and thus ||P|| <= 1.

(1) & (2) combined give us that ||P||=1. This proof is only valid on a Hilbert space, but not necessarily on a general inner product space. Do you see why?

I suppose my first explanation was wrong. Since nobody has been quoting it yet, I'm changing it.

The proof assumes (Px|x-Px)=0. If P is self-adjoint, then (Px|Px)=(P^2x|x)=(Px|x) -> (Px|x-Px)=0. I suppose that doesn't come any other way.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 59 ·
2
Replies
59
Views
7K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
628
  • · Replies 61 ·
3
Replies
61
Views
6K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K