Proof about pre-images of functions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving two statements related to the pre-images of functions: that for a function ##f: M \rightarrow N##, if ##L \subseteq M## and ##P \subseteq N##, then ##L \subseteq f^{-1}(f(L))## and ##f(f^{-1}(P)) \subseteq P##. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and proof techniques relevant to set theory and functions.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in proving the statements and seeks assistance from others.
  • Another participant suggests a hint involving tracking a point through the operations, indicating a method to approach the proof.
  • A later post reiterates the problem and proposes a specific approach by letting ##x \in L## and defining ##y = f(x)##, questioning the definition of ##f^{-1}(f(L))## and the inclusion of ##x## in it.
  • There is an emphasis on the importance of logical order in the steps of the proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for hints and guidance rather than direct solutions, but there is no consensus on the specific proof methods or steps to take.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the mathematical steps necessary for the proof, and there are indications of varying levels of understanding and approaches to the problem.

PhysicsRock
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The problem reads: ##f:M \rightarrow N##, and ##L \subseteq M## and ##P \subseteq N##. Then prove that ##L \subseteq f^{-1}(f(L))## and ##f(f^{-1}(P)) \subseteq P##.
My co-students and I can't find a way to prove this. I hope, someone here will be able to help us out. It would be very appreciated.

Thank you in advance and have a great day everyone.
 
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If this is a textbook homework type of problem, then there is a section and a format for that and we are only allowed to give hints and guidance.
Hint: pick a point in the smaller subset side and track it through the operations.
 
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FactChecker said:
If this is a textbook homework type of problem, then there is a section and a format for that and we are only allowed to give hints and guidance.
I guess I figured it out anyway, at least I tried. Thank you for the advice. I'll ask for a specific hint etc. next time.
 
PhysicsRock said:
The problem reads: ##f:M \rightarrow N##, and ##L \subseteq M## and ##P \subseteq N##. Then prove that ##L \subseteq f^{-1}(f(L))## and ##f(f^{-1}(P)) \subseteq P##.
My co-students and I can't find a way to prove this. I hope, someone here will be able to help us out. It would be very appreciated.

Thank you in advance and have a great day everyone.
Let ##x \in L##. Then ##y = f(x) \in f(L)##. Now, what is, by definition, ##f^{-1}(f(L))##? And why is ##x \in f^{-1}(f(L))##?

Hint: it might help conceptually (be less confusing) to let ##X = f(L)## so that ##y = f(x) \in X## and show that ##x \in f^{-1}(X)##.

PS the trick with these proofs is to get all the logical steps in the right order.
 
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