Proof of subadditivity of quantum entropy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of subadditivity of quantum entropy, specifically focusing on the trace of tensor products and the interpretation of density operators in quantum mechanics. Participants explore the mathematical details involved in the proof and the implications of the assumptions made regarding the combined density operator.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about expanding the trace over a bipartite system's density operator into partial traces over its subsystems.
  • Another participant suggests that the logarithm of the tensor product of density operators can be expressed as a sum involving identity operators, which can be verified through diagonalization.
  • A participant questions the common assumption that the combined density operator is a product of the reduced density operators, emphasizing that this is not generally true.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of the relative entropy as a measure of how different the combined density operator is from the product state.
  • One participant attempts to clarify the trace operation and its application to the tensor product, suggesting that it can be split into two terms involving the reduced density operators.
  • Another participant emphasizes the significance of entanglement when the combined density operator is not separable, noting the influence of measurements on subsystems.
  • A participant reflects on their understanding of the mathematical representation of the density operator in terms of vector spaces, seeking confirmation of their reasoning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the mathematical details and interpretations of the density operators. There is no consensus on the assumptions made about the combined density operator, and multiple viewpoints on its interpretation and implications are present.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of distinguishing between the combined density operator and the product of reduced density operators, indicating that assumptions in the literature may not always be justified. The discussion also touches on the mathematical intricacies of tensor products and traces, which may require further clarification.

Narvalen
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I'm having problems understanding the trace of tensor products when the density matrix is expressed in its reduced density operators. The proof of subadditivity is quite simple.

S(ρAB||ρA[itex]\otimes[/itex]ρB) = Tr(ρABlogρAB) - Tr(ρABlogρA[itex]\otimes[/itex]ρB) = TrABABlogρAB) - Tr(ρAlogρA) - Tr(ρBlogρB)

This carries on to finalize the proof. But this last step is the step where I'm at a loss. How is the trace over AB (the second term in the first step) expanded into the respective partial traces over A and B (the second and third term in the last step)?

Here, ρAB is a density operator acting on the Hilbert space of the bipartite system and the rest should be self-explanatory.

Please help!
 
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Narvalen said:
This carries on to finalize the proof. But this last step is the step where I'm at a loss. How is the trace over AB (the second term in the first step) expanded into the respective partial traces over A and B (the second and third term in the last step)?

You use that [itex]\log(\rho_{\mathrm{A}} \otimes \rho_{\mathrm{B}}) = \log(\rho_{\mathrm{A}}) \otimes \mathbb{I}_{\mathrm{B}} + \mathbb{I}_{\mathrm{A}} \otimes \log(\rho_{\mathrm{B}})[/itex], where [itex]\mathbb{I}[/itex] is the identity operator. You can easily verify this by diagonalising [itex]\rho_{\mathrm{A}}[/itex] and [itex]\rho_{\mathrm{B}}[/itex].
 
Thank you for your response, it was very helpful. Back to basics of tensor product relations. My next problem is with the interpretation of ρAB. I do not want to make the assumption that ρAB = ρA[itex]\otimes[/itex]ρB. However, this assumption is made in the literature without comment at times, while one is often adviced to recall that ρAB [itex]\neq[/itex] ρA[itex]\otimes[/itex]ρB in general. How should the combined density operator be interpreted? I would accept the logic of operator algebra in this case.
 
So I get

Tr(ρABlog(ρA[itex]\otimes[/itex]ρB)) = Tr(ρAB(logρA[itex]\otimes[/itex]IB + IA[itex]\otimes[/itex]logρB))

This is obviously wrong if you exploit the trace of a tensor product and the trace of an identity matrix which is just the number of dimensionality of each vector space. Where am I loosing it?
 
Narvalen said:
Thank you for your response, it was very helpful. Back to basics of tensor product relations. My next problem is with the interpretation of ρAB. I do not want to make the assumption that ρAB = ρA[itex]\otimes[/itex]ρB.

It is not being assumed that [itex]\rho_{\mathrm{AB}} = \rho_{\mathrm{A}} \otimes \rho_{\mathrm{B}}[/itex]. [itex]\rho_{\mathrm{A}}[/itex] and [itex]\rho_{\mathrm{B}}[/itex] are simply the reduced density operators defined by, e.g., [itex]\rho_{\mathrm{A}} = \mathrm{Tr}_{\mathrm{B}}[\rho_{\mathrm{AB}}][/itex].

You can think of the relative entropy [itex]S(\rho_{\mathrm{AB}} \,\Vert\, \rho_{\mathrm{A}} \otimes \rho_{\mathrm{B}})[/itex] as a measure of how different [itex]\rho_{\mathrm{AB}}[/itex] is from the product state [itex]\rho_{\mathrm{A}} \otimes \rho_{\mathrm{B}}[/itex]. If [itex]\rho_{\mathrm{AB}}[/itex] is a product state, then [itex]S(\rho_{\mathrm{AB}} \,\Vert\, \rho_{\mathrm{A}} \otimes \rho_{\mathrm{B}}) = 0[/itex].
Narvalen said:
So I get

Tr(ρABlog(ρA[itex]\otimes[/itex]ρB)) = Tr(ρAB(logρA[itex]\otimes[/itex]IB + IA[itex]\otimes[/itex]logρB))

This is obviously wrong if you exploit the trace of a tensor product and the trace of an identity matrix which is just the number of dimensionality of each vector space. Where am I loosing it?

I don't follow. The second part of the equation you write can be explicitly split into the sum of two terms:
[tex]\mathrm{Tr} [ \rho_{\mathrm{AB}} ( \log(\rho_{\mathrm{A}}) \otimes \mathbb{I}_{\mathrm{B}} ) ] + \mathrm{Tr} [ \rho_{\mathrm{AB}} ( \mathbb{I}_{\mathrm{A}} \otimes \log(\rho_{\mathrm{B}}) ) ] \,.[/tex]
In general, you can always write the trace on some Hilbert space [itex]\mathcal{H}_{\mathrm{A}} \otimes \mathcal{H}_{\mathrm{B}}[/itex] as [itex]\mathrm{Tr}[\,\cdot\,] = \mathrm{Tr}_{\mathrm{A}} \{ \mathrm{Tr}_{\mathrm{B}} [ \,\cdot\, ] \}[/itex]. Working on the first term for instance, you should find
[tex]\mathrm{Tr}_{\mathrm{B}}[ \rho_{\mathrm{AB}} ( \log(\rho_{\mathrm{A}}) \otimes \mathbb{I}_{\mathrm{B}} ) ] = \rho_{\mathrm{A}} \log(\rho_{\mathrm{A}})[/tex]
with [itex]\rho_{\mathrm{A}} = \mathrm{Tr}_{\mathrm{B}}[\rho_{\mathrm{AB}}][/itex]. If this isn't obvious to you, you can always see it just by writing [itex]\mathrm{Tr}_{\mathrm{B}}[/itex] explicitly in terms of a sum over any orthonormal basis [itex]\{ \lvert n \rangle_{\mathrm{B}} \}[/itex] of [itex]\mathcal{H}_{\mathrm{B}}[/itex].
 
Last edited:
Narvalen said:
How should the combined density operator be interpreted?
It is the density operator of the combined physical system. If it isn't seperable, you have entanglement. Then, performing a measurement on subsystem A may influence subsystem B.
 
Thank you both for your response. I managed to clear the logic after some time. It's really annoying to get stuck like that. I started thinking in terms of operators and then, progress.

I had a really hard time interpreting what this really means in terms of vector spaces:

ρABlog(ρA)[itex]\otimes[/itex][itex]\mathbb{I}[/itex]B

I decided to think of ρAB as expressed in terms of the A and B bases. Sort of like this:

ρAlogρA[itex]\|\left\{a_{i}\right\}\rangle[/itex] ρB[itex]\mathbb{I}_{B}\|\left\{b_{i}\right\}\rangle[/itex]

Not sure if I brained it correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong) but at least I can proceed.

Many thanks. :)
 

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