Proof of T.a=0 rule in mechanics (Laws of motion)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the T.a=0 rule in mechanics, particularly in the context of constraint motion and its application to pulley systems. Participants explore the validity and proof of this rule, as well as its implications in analyzing motion in mechanical systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the T.a=0 rule and illustrates its application with a pulley system example, suggesting it is useful for solving complex problems.
  • Another participant notes that the constant length of the rope leads to the relationships v1 + v2 = 0 and a1 + a2 = 0, implying a connection to the T.a rule.
  • A different participant challenges the dimensional consistency of the T.a expression, suggesting that it only holds under specific conditions where the sum of accelerations is zero and tensions are equal.
  • Another participant argues that a single object under a single tension does not conform to the T.a rule, questioning its general applicability and suggesting alternative approaches like summing accelerations or tensions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and applicability of the T.a=0 rule. There is no consensus on its proof or general applicability, with some participants supporting its use while others raise significant challenges and alternative perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations regarding the dimensional analysis of the T.a expression and the specific conditions under which the rule may or may not apply, such as the nature of the pulley system and the masses involved.

Rinzler09
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There is this T.a rule in laws of motion which can be applied to a system to solve problems regarding constraint motion. Here's an example
Physics Forums.jpg

This example is pretty simple so I've decided to show the application of the rule here.
Consider the FBD of m,
T is in the same direction as the acceleration. Therefore, T.a=Ta1
Considering the FBD of 2m,
T is in the opposite direction. Therefore, T.a=-Ta2

ΣT.a=0, Therefore, Ta1 - Ta2=0
Thus, a1=a2

This method is really useful for complex pulley systems such as this one.
pulleys.gif


I was wondering how to prove this. Can somebody help? Just give me an idea. Don't post the proof.
 
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Well hello Rinzler, welcome to PF :smile: !

If you consider the constant length of the rope, it is pretty straightforward that y1 + y2 is a constant.
So v1 + v2 = 0 and a1 + a2 = 0 too.

The pulley system you draw is somewhat different, though
 
BvU said:
Well hello Rinzler, welcome to PF :smile: !

If you consider the constant length of the rope, it is pretty straightforward that y1 + y2 is a constant.
So v1 + v2 = 0 and a1 + a2 = 0 too.

The pulley system you draw is somewhat different, though
Yeah, the length of the string is constant. But I'm saying that ΣT.a for the system is zero.
 
Doesn't feel good to me: the dimension of ##\vec T \cdot \vec a## is all irregular.
##\sum \vec T \cdot \vec a = 0 ## only because ##\sum \vec a = \vec 0 ## and the T are equal.

Newton ##\sum \vec F = m\vec a## would be a lot better starting point for your analysis of e.g. the crate system.
And (with due care for the masses of the pulleys -- they can be different, equal, massless or all on one and the same axle) there will be an additional statement for the tensions.
 
A single object accelerating under the action of a single tension (like a block pulled on a horizontal surface) does not satisfy this "rule".
As for the system in OP, why not sum of accelerations or sum of tensions? They are also zero but so what? It's not a general relationship.
 

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