Proofs on growth rates of functions theorems using definition of a limit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving theorems related to the growth rates of functions using the definition of limits, specifically in the context of Big Oh notation. Participants explore proofs for different limit scenarios, including when the limit approaches zero and when it approaches infinity, while addressing the structure and clarity of mathematical proofs.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof attempting to show that if $\lim_{x \rightarrow \infty} \frac{f(x)}{g(x)} = 0$, then $f(x) = O(g(x))$, using the definition of Big Oh.
  • Another participant requests clarification on the specific claim being proven and emphasizes the importance of stating the claim clearly.
  • A participant confirms that choosing $c = 1$ is valid and discusses the role of $N_0$ in the proof, suggesting it relates to the definition of the limit.
  • There is a discussion about the appropriate use of language in mathematical proofs, highlighting that proofs should be grammatically correct and include explanatory phrases.
  • Participants discuss the flexibility in selecting positive values for epsilon in proofs, noting that any positive number can be chosen under certain conditions.
  • One participant expresses confusion about setting up a proof for the case where the limit approaches infinity, particularly regarding the implications of $f(x)/g(x)$ being minus infinity.
  • A later reply provides insight into the scenario where $\lim_{x \rightarrow \infty} \frac{f(x)}{g(x)} = \infty$, suggesting that this implies $g(x) = O(f(x))$ and outlines a potential approach to proving this claim.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of choosing specific constants in proofs and the importance of clear communication in mathematical writing. However, there remains some uncertainty regarding the setup of proofs for different limit cases, particularly the limit approaching infinity, indicating that multiple views and interpretations exist.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for clarity in the definitions and assumptions used in proofs, as well as the potential for confusion when transitioning between different limit scenarios. The discussion does not resolve the specific mathematical steps required for each case.

ATroelstein
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Hello, I am working through some proofs from the following document: Function Definitions

Under Calculation of Big - Oh, some theorems are provided that classify the growth rates of functions in relation to one depending on what the limit is as the input approaches infinity. One proof is provided when the limit is a constant using the definition of a limit, but I'm trying to also prove the others ones, such as when the limit is 0. I came up with the following proof, skipping restating some of the definition that has already been provided in the example proof.

$$
\frac{f(x)}{g(x)} - 0 < \epsilon
$$

$$
\epsilon = 1
$$

$$
\frac{f(x)}{g(x)} - 0 < 1
$$$$
\frac{f(x)}{g(x)} < 1
$$$$
f(x) < 1 * g(x)
$$

Which shows 1 is the constant and N0 is the N that I need to then prove this is correct using the definition of Big Oh. My question is, does my proof flow correctly? Also, are you technically able to pick any positive value for epsilon, or is there a technique involved with selecting this value. Lastly, what would the proof look like if the limit was infinity? I'm confused when I set up the initial part of that proof as the f(x)/g(x) would be minus infinity. Thanks in advance for any guidance.
 
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To start, why don't you state the claim that you are trying to prove?
 
The claim I am trying to prove is that if:

$$
\lim_{x \rightarrow \infty} \frac{f(x)}{g(x)} = 0
$$

Then f(x) = O(g(x)) using the definition of a limit and then using the definition of Big Oh where the definition of Big Oh is:

f(x) = O(g(x)) if and only if there is a constant, c > 0, and an N >= 0, such that for all x > N, f(x) <= c*g(x)
 
I am assuming we are considering nonnegative functions.

OK, you are right that you can choose c = 1. I did not understand this:
ATroelstein said:
N0 is the N that I need to then prove this is correct using the definition of Big Oh.
I guess $N_0$ comes from the definition of the limit in the case of $\lim_{x \rightarrow \infty} \frac{f(x)}{g(x)} = 0$. Then I agree.

In general, unless you a computer, a proof should not be just a sequence of formulas. It should be a grammatically correct English text that includes phrases like "We must show that," "Suppose," "Therefore," "Set ε = 1," etc.

ATroelstein said:
Also, are you technically able to pick any positive value for epsilon, or is there a technique involved with selecting this value.
Technically, yes, when you have an assumption or a proved claim that starts with "For every ε > 0," you can instantiate ε with any positive number. My calculus teacher used to say, "Let's pick an arbitrarily small ε, for example, ε = 100." Which ε can help move the proof forward depends entirely on the problem.

ATroelstein said:
Lastly, what would the proof look like if the limit was infinity? I'm confused when I set up the initial part of that proof as the f(x)/g(x) would be minus infinity .
For example, if $\lim_{x \rightarrow \infty} \frac{f(x)}{g(x)} = \infty$, then $g(x)=O(f(x))$. Indeed, the assumption says that for every $M>0$ there exists an $N>0$ such that for all $x>N$ it is the case that $f(x)/g(x)>M$. Choose $M = 1$ and get the corresponding $N$; then $g(x)<f(x)/M=f(x)=1\cdot f(x)$ for all $x>N$.
 

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