Properties of Integrals and differentials

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of integrals and differentials, specifically addressing questions about the transformation of integrals involving exponential functions and the nature of differentials. Participants explore theoretical aspects and mathematical reasoning related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the integral ∫exf(t) dt transforms to ex∫f(t) dt, suggesting that ex should be part of the integrand.
  • One participant asserts that since the integral is with respect to t, ex is treated as a constant.
  • Participants discuss the meaning of differentials being linear maps, with one explaining the properties that define a linear mapping.
  • Another participant attempts to illustrate the concept of differentials by manipulating expressions involving small values added and subtracted from variables.
  • There is a challenge regarding the rearrangement of expressions involving differentials, with one participant questioning the validity of an earlier explanation.
  • Some participants clarify that the interpretation of y1 as a constant or a function affects how differentials are treated in calculations.
  • One participant emphasizes that dy represents a change in y that is inherently linked to a change in x, leading to further clarification on notation and limits in calculus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the properties of integrals and differentials, with some agreeing on the treatment of constants versus functions, while others challenge the explanations provided. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to understanding these mathematical concepts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of notation and the dependence on whether y1 is treated as a constant or a function. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with the concepts of linear mappings and differentials.

andyrk
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I had a couple of questions.

1. Why does the integral ∫exf(t) dt transform to exf(t) dt? Shouldn't ex be a part of the integrand too?

2. Why is the difference dy - dy1 = d(y - y1)?
 
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andyrk said:
I had a couple of questions.

1. Why does the integral ∫exf(t) dt transform to exf(t) dt? Shouldn't ex be a part of the integrand too?

2. Why is the difference dy - dy1 = d(y - y1)?

1. The integral is with respect to t so ex is a constant.

2. Differentials are linear maps.
 
lavinia said:
2. Differentials are linear maps.
What does that mean?
 
A linear mapping is one such that f(x*y) = f(x)*f(y) and f(ax) = af(x), where * is some operation and a is a constant.
 
andyrk said:
What does that mean?

Try it yourself: Add a small value and subtract the original. Thus: d(y - y1) = ((y + h) - (y1 + h1)) - (y - y1) . Rearrange and get ((y +h) -y) - ((y1 +h1) - y1) = dy - dy1
 
andyrk said:
What does that mean?

A function (also called a "map" or "mapping") has a domain and codomain that are sets. These sets need not be sets of real numbers. They need not be sets of any kind of numbers. They can be sets whose elements are very complicated things.

You can consider "taking the derivative" as function who domain and codomain are each sets of real valued functions of one real variable.

If we write "take the derivative with respect to [itex]t[/itex]" in function notation we could write the result of doing this as [itex]D_t(f(t))[/itex] or just [itex]D()[/itex] when we are talking about real valued functions of one real variable.

The function [itex]D()[/itex] satisfies:
1) [itex]D(f + g) = D(f) + D(g)[/itex]
2) [itex]D(kf) = k D(f)[/itex] when [itex]k[/itex] is a constant real number.

Those are the properties that define a "linear mapping" or "linear operator".

As an example of a function from a set of functions to a set of functions that is not linear, consider the function [itex]H(f) = f^2[/itex].

It's easy to get the impression that the word "linear" is always denotes something that has to do with a line (such as a "linear equation"). Often the word "linear" is used as an adjective without any implication that a straight line is involved. For example there are "linear operators", "linear differential equations" and the subject of "linear algebra". Sometimes a "linear" thing has indirect associations with a line. For example, in the case of the derivative operator, it produces a function that is interpreted as slopes of tangent lines.

As another example of an operator that is not linear consider [itex]H(f) = af + b[/itex] where [itex]a[/itex] and [itex]b[/itex] are constants and [itex]b\ne 0[/itex]. It reminds us of the equation of a line, but it does not satisfy property 1) above.
 
Svein said:
Try it yourself: Add a small value and subtract the original. Thus: d(y - y1) = ((y + h) - (y1 + h1)) - (y - y1) . Rearrange and get ((y +h) -y) - ((y1 +h1) - y1) = dy - dy1

Yeah! That was a quick and simple explanation..Thanks! :)
 
Svein said:
Try it yourself: Add a small value and subtract the original. Thus: d(y - y1) = ((y + h) - (y1 + h1)) - (y - y1) . Rearrange and get ((y +h) -y) - ((y1 +h1) - y1) = dy - dy1
But wait. On second thought, d(y - y1) ≠ ((y + h) - (y1 + h1)) - (y - y1) because d(y - y1) = ((y - y1) + h) - (y - y1). How would you rearrange that to make it equal to dy - dy1?
 
andyrk said:
But wait. On second thought, d(y - y1) ≠ ((y + h) - (y1 + h1)) - (y - y1) because d(y - y1) = ((y - y1) + h) - (y - y1). How would you rearrange that to make it equal to dy - dy1?
It depends on how you view y1. If y1 is a constant, then your reasoning is correct. But if y and y1 are two different functions of x, say y(x) and y1(x), you must treat them as I did.
 
  • #10
Svein said:
It depends on how you view y1. If y1 is a constant, then your reasoning is correct. But if y and y1 are two different functions of x, say y(x) and y1(x), you must treat them as I did.
They are two different functions. But why should that mean that we do it your way and not mine?
 
  • #11
Is it because we look at dy as corresponding change in y when we change x? That is, dy by itself makes no sense, it is always accompanied by a change in x which further creates a change in y?
 
  • #12
andyrk said:
That is, dy by itself makes no sense, it is always accompanied by a change in x which further creates a change in y?
Yes. I apologize for being a trifle sloppy with my notation. The correct (and long-winded) way is: [itex]\Delta y(x) = y(x+\Delta x) -y(x)[/itex] and the same for y1(x). Then [itex]lim_{\Delta x\rightarrow 0}\frac{\Delta y(x)}{\Delta x}=y'(x) = \frac{dy}{dx}[/itex] (and the same for y1). So, when we say y + h, we are in reality saying y(x + Δx), so h is a function of x.
 

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