Proposition needed to be proven

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Werg22
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical proposition related to the expression \(4n + 3\) and its relationship with specific prime factors. Participants explore the conditions under which this expression can equal a product of powers of certain primes, specifically questioning the existence of integers \(a\), \(b\), and \(c\) that satisfy the equation \(4n + 3 = 5^{a}13^{b}17^{c}\) for \(n \in \mathbb{Z^{*}}\).

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant conjectures that there are no integers \(a\), \(b\), and \(c\) such that \(4n + 3 = 5^{a}13^{b}17^{c}\) for any \(n \in \mathbb{Z^{*}}\).
  • Another participant questions the original query, suggesting a misunderstanding regarding the generation of primes from the sequence defined by \(a_n = 4n + 3\).
  • Clarifications are made regarding the primality of numbers mentioned, specifically correcting the classification of 21 as a prime.
  • A mathematical observation is presented that the product of numbers of the form \(4n + 1\) results in another number of the same form.
  • Discussion includes modular arithmetic, noting that \(5\), \(13\), and \(17\) are congruent to \(1 \mod 4\), while \(4n + 3\) is congruent to \(3 \mod 4\).
  • Participants express curiosity about the notation \(\mathbb{Z}^{*}\), leading to a clarification that it refers to non-negative integers.
  • A later reply references a lemma related to the topic, recalling its use in a mathematical context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the original proposition, with some clarifying misunderstandings and others providing mathematical insights. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the original conjecture, and multiple viewpoints remain present.

Contextual Notes

Some participants exhibit uncertainty regarding the implications of their statements, and there are unresolved questions about the definitions and properties of the numbers involved.

Werg22
Messages
1,431
Reaction score
1
A relatively lengthy proof I am writing for an assignment leads me to a proposition (which I need to turn into a lemma for the proof to be complete) conjecturing that for any n \in \mathbb{Z^{*}}, there are no a, b, c \in \mathbb{Z^{*}} such that 4n + 3 = 5^{a}13^{b}17^{c}. I haven't been able to find to tackle the problem, any suggestions?
 
Last edited:
Mathematics news on Phys.org
I don't understand you question...do you mean that the sequence defined by a_n = 4n +3 , n \in \mathbb{Z} must generate some primes for n other than 5, 13, 17 and 21?

The digits 4 and 3 add up to 7, a prime. So a value of n that would keep the digits the same already rules the number out for a heap of divisibility tests for small numbers. Since it only rules out small numbers, try small values of n. n=1, a_1 = 7, prime. n=10, a_10 = 43, prime.

I don't think that's what you are asking, because I'm sure you would have spotted n=1 straight away.
 
What do you mean by "4n + 3 must have primes other than 5, 13, 17 and 21"?

21 isn't prime :confused:

5, 13, 17, 21 are all of the form 4n+1 not 4n+3 :confused:
 
Sorry for stating that 21 is prime, it was 4 am here, easy to say gibberish at this time. That said, I have rectified the original question, so please read it.
 
(4n+1)(4k+1) = 16nk+4(n+k)+1 = 4m+1. The form is preserved under multiplication.
 
OK, I read it, but robert Ihnot got there first...

5 = 13 = 17 = 1 mod 4, so 5^a 13^b 17^c = 1 mod 4.
 
Thanks allot, the proof is complete. :smile:
 
work mod 4. the lhs is 3 mod 4. what aboutn the rhs? 5=1 mod 4, 13=1 mod 4, and also 17=1 mod 4, so the lhs =3 and the rhs =1.
 
Sorry to sound ignorant but what does the "*" represent in \mathbb{Z}^{*}
 
Last edited:
  • #10
uart said:
Sorry to sound ignorant but what does the "*" represent in \mathbb{Z}^{*}

Non-negative integers.
 
  • #11
"Non-negative". Ok thanks.
 
  • #12
I'm curious as to why you ask this question, Werg22. I vaguely remember using/reading this lemma, as proven by robert Ihnot here, in a maths book. It was titled "Proofs from the BOOK" or something along those lines. I believe the chapter I found it in was something on the representation of integers as sum of primes or something like that.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
915
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
628
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
9K
  • · Replies 125 ·
5
Replies
125
Views
20K