Proton-proton inelastic cross section in MeV

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the proton-proton inelastic cross section at MeV energies, exploring the availability of data and theoretical considerations regarding various interactions at these energy levels. Participants examine specific reactions, their thresholds, and cross-sections, while also referencing simulation results.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks proton-proton inelastic cross section data specifically in MeV, noting a lack of results in existing databases compared to higher energies.
  • Another participant questions whether only elastic scattering occurs at these energies, indicating a lack of familiarity with the interaction.
  • A participant suggests that pion production is the first inelastic collision via the strong force at around 150 MeV, but notes a negligible cross-section at this energy.
  • Further elaboration on the weak interaction indicates that processes like p+p -> d+positron+neutrino should have no threshold but also a low cross-section.
  • Discussion includes potential electromagnetic interactions in inelastic collisions, with a participant proposing a reaction involving photon emission and questioning the comparative cross-sections of various processes.
  • A participant shares simulation results from FLUKA, reporting an inelastic scattering length of 9.1E9 cm for proton-proton interactions at 10 MeV, which they find small compared to elastic scattering.
  • Another participant corrects the scattering length to 0.16E+10 cm and emphasizes the need for long-range tunneling below the MeV scale, suggesting that the cross-section becomes negligible for simulations.
  • There is a discussion about definitions of inelastic interactions in high-energy physics and the relevance of ionization in the context of scattering lengths.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the nature of inelastic collisions at MeV energies, with multiple competing views on the types of interactions that may occur and their respective cross-sections. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on the availability of data or the significance of the reported scattering lengths.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in available data and definitions, as well as the dependence on specific energy thresholds and interaction types. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions regarding the interactions involved and the interpretation of simulation results.

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Dear Forum :
I'm looking for proton-proton inelastic cross section in MeV.
There are lots of results in GeV, TeV.
But I can not find the results in MeV in ENDF nor TENDL.
https://www-nds.iaea.org/exfor/endf.htm
ftp://ftp.nrg.eu/pub/www/talys/tendl2011/proton_html/proton.html
Please advise me
Thanks in advance
 
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I am not familiar with the particular interaction. However I wonder if at those energies the only reaction is elastic sacattering?
 
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The first inelastic collision via the strong force should be pion production at ~150 MeV, probably with a negligible cross-section at this energy.

p+p -> p+n+positron+antineutrino (or deuterium instead of p+n) would have a lower threshold, but as the process happens via the weak interaction the cross-section is completely negligible.
 
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mfb said:
p+p -> p+n+positron+antineutrino (or deuterium instead of p+n) would have a lower threshold,
p+p -> d+positron+neutrino should have NO threshold, because it releases energy - but also a low cross-section because it is weak interaction.

But there should be some electromagnetic interaction inelastic collisions, because protons are charged.
p+p -> p+p+γ... whether the energy of the said photon is γ, x-ray, UV, visible, infrared or radio waves. How does the cross-section of braking radiation compare wit the cross-section for elastic collision?
Starting from threshold of 1022 keV, there will also be electromagnetic interaction of
p+p -> p+p+e-+e+
So in that region, how are the comparative cross-sections of elastic collision, braking radiation and pair production?
 
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The question arose to me when I do a simulation on FLUKA,
there is inelastic scattering length 9.1E9 cm of proton-proton(H) in 10MeV.
9.1E9 cm which converting to 0.011mb.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gul3dibeqlgmmej/MeV10 Material.JPG
It is really small compare to other process or elastic scattering of p-p.
I just wonder where could I find other resource to compare with it ?
 
snorkack said:
p+p -> d+positron+neutrino should have NO threshold, because it releases energy - but also a low cross-section because it is weak interaction.
Right. But below the MeV scale you need long-range tunneling, and the cross-section gets even worse.
Completely negligible when you want to simulate processes in FLUKA.

But there should be some electromagnetic interaction inelastic collisions, because protons are charged.
I don't think they are called inelastic in high-energy physics, but that's probably just a question of definitions.

Starting from threshold of 1022 keV, there will also be electromagnetic interaction of
p+p -> p+p+e-+e+
Right. Again, should be completely negligible.I don't see 9.1E9 in this table, but this is scattering at hydrogen, not at protons. Ionization could count towards the value, or the result is just a relict of some extrapolation.
 
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I'm sorry for 9.1E9cm, should be 0.16E+10 cm , converting to 0.11 mbarns.
Also, it should be hydrogen instead of proton.
However, is there other resources to compare ?
 

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