Prove existance of open interval

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the existence of an open interval around a point x0 for a differentiable function f, where the derivative at that point is positive. Participants explore the implications of differentiability and continuity, and how these relate to the behavior of the function in the vicinity of x0.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that if f is differentiable at x0 and f'(x0) > 0, then f is increasing at x0, suggesting the existence of an open interval where f(x1) < f(x0) < f(x2) for x1 < x0 < x2.
  • Another participant references the limit definition of the derivative, indicating that the limit exists and is greater than zero, and proposes using this limit to establish the open interval.
  • A participant questions how to apply the epsilon-delta definition of limits to find the necessary delta for establishing the open interval.
  • One reply clarifies that the existence of the limit allows for the selection of epsilon, which can help in determining the corresponding delta without needing a specific formula.
  • Another participant suggests defining the open interval using the inverse of the function values at x0 minus and plus L, leading to the formulation of the interval (a, b) where x1 < x0 < x2.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various approaches to the problem, with no consensus reached on the specific method to establish the open interval or the exact values of delta and epsilon. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best path forward.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of applying the epsilon-delta definition and the need for careful consideration of the limit's properties. There is uncertainty about how to derive specific values for delta based on the general conditions provided.

John O' Meara
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Suppose that a function f is differentiable at x0 and that f'(x0)>0. Prove that there exists an open interval containing x0 such that if x1 and x2 are any two points in this interval with x1 < x0 < x2 then f(x1) < f(x0) < f(x2). How do I establish an open interval? Do I need the "epsilon delta" definition of a two sided limit? I am studing maths on my own so please help with this easy question.
I know, that if a function f is differentiable at x0, then f is continuous at x0 and as f'(x0) is positive then f is an increasing function at x=x0.
 
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We are given that

[tex]\lim_{x \rightarrow x_0} \frac{f(x) - f(x_0)}{x - x_0} = L > 0[/tex]

Let L play the role of epsilon in the definition of this limit.
 


Limit definition: Let f(x)be defined for all x in some open interval containing the number a, with the possible exception that f(x) need not be defined at a. We will write

[tex]\lim_{x \rightarrow a}f(x)=L[/tex]

if given any number epsilon > 0 we can find a number delta > 0 such that
|f(x) - L| < epsilon if 0 < |x - a| < delta.

If L plays the role of epsilon in the definition above, what plays the role of |f(x) - L|. I just do not get it yet. Thanks.
 
Well just compare what I wrote to your definition. The difference quotient in my limit replaces f(x) in your definition. We replace a with x0 but L remains unchanged since I'm simply using the fact that the limit exists and is > 0. Remember the derivative is just the limit of a difference quotient, and the difference quotient is a function, and so we can just apply the epsilon-delta formulation with the difference quotient as our function.
 


You mean the following: [tex]\left \frac{f(x) - f(x_{0})}{x - x_{0}} - L \right < \epsilon \mbox{ if } 0 < \left x - x_{0} \right < \delta[/tex].
So if the conclusion of my definition is true its hypothesis implies the existence of an open interval? Usually theorems work the other way round i.e., you establish its hypothesis and the conclusion follows. Where do I go from here and how do I find a value for delta? Thanks again.
 
It's not just the conclusion of the definition of the limit that holds, you have to consider the definition as a whole. Yes usually we have to establish a delta that works given some arbitrary epsilon, but we don't have to do that here since the limit exists. Because the limit exists we can CHOOSE epsilon for our purposes and we know that some delta already exists so that |f(x) - L| is less than the epsilon we chose (clearly we can't actually find a formula for delta since we are working rather generally). As I said before, choose epsilon to be L (since L is a positive number), look carefully at the entire definition of the limit we are working with and figure out where the open intervals come in.
 
If you mean
Let the inverse of [tex]f(x_{0}-L) = a[/tex]
Let the inverse of [tex]f(x_{0}+L) = b[/tex]
Then we have the open interval (a,b)
[tex]x_{0}-\delta =x_{1}, x_{0}+\delta =x_{2} \mbox{ and we have }x_{1} < x_{0} < x_{2}[/tex]
Then we still have to prove [tex]f(x_{1} < f(x_{0}) < f(x_{2})[/tex]
 

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