Prove that N is a normal subgroup

In summary, the conversation discusses proving that N is a normal subgroup of G, given that H is any subgroup of G and N is defined as the intersection of all a^-1Ha for a in G. The participants suggest different approaches, including finding an expression for h and showing that N is a subgroup of G. Eventually, they agree on taking the intersection of G and showing that it is equivalent to taking the intersection of Ga for every element a in G.
  • #1
AdrianZ
319
0

Homework Statement



If H is any subgroup of G and [itex]N={\cap_{a\in G} a^{-1}Ha}[/itex], prove that N is a normal subgroup of G.

The Attempt at a Solution



Is this statement true? [itex]\forall n: n \in N \implies \exists h \in H : n=a^{-1}ha[/itex]
The theorem looks intuitively true, but I don't know how to write a formal argument knowing that [itex]N={\cap_{a\in G} a^{-1}Ha}[/itex]
 
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  • #2
The statement you write is true. How would you find h?? Hint: rewrite the equation [itex]n=a^{-1}ha[/itex] to find an expression for h.
 
  • #3
micromass said:
The statement you write is true. How would you find h?? Hint: rewrite the equation [itex]n=a^{-1}ha[/itex] to find an expression for h.

well, then is this argument valid?

first I should show that N is a subgroup of G, it means I should prove that for any a and b in N, ab-1 is also in N.

[itex]\forall p,b \in N: \forall a \in G, \exists h_1,h_2 \in H : p=a^{-1}h_1a , b=a^{-1}h_2a[/itex]
[itex] pb^{-1}= a^{-1}h_1a(a^{-1}h_2a)^{-1}=a^{-1}h_1a(a)^{-1}h_2^{-1}(a^{-1})^{-1}=a^{-1}hh^{-1}a \implies \exists h_3 \in H, \forall a \in G: a^{-1}h_3a=pb^{-1}[/itex]
hence, [itex]pb^{-1} \in N[/itex] and N is a subgroup of G.

If that argument is valid, how can I show that N is normal?
 
  • #4
AdrianZ said:
well, then is this argument valid?

first I should show that N is a subgroup of G, it means I should prove that for any a and b in N, ab-1 is also in N.

[itex]\forall p,b \in N: \forall a \in G, \exists h_1,h_2 \in H : p=a^{-1}h_1a , b=a^{-1}h_2a[/itex]
[itex] pb^{-1}= a^{-1}h_1a(a^{-1}h_2a)^{-1}=a^{-1}h_1a(a)^{-1}h_2^{-1}(a^{-1})^{-1}=a^{-1}hh^{-1}a \implies \exists h_3 \in H, \forall a \in G: a^{-1}h_3a=pb^{-1}[/itex]
hence, [itex]pb^{-1} \in N[/itex] and N is a subgroup of G.

Looks good.

If that argument is valid, how can I show that N is normal?

Take p in N arbitrary and show that [itex]a^{-1}pa[/itex] is also in N.
 
  • #5
i think you're focusing too much on the h's. in the intersection it's the a's that serve as the index. and these range over every element of G. that's important.

so we are taking the intersection of H, aHa-1,bHb-1, etc.

now, suppose we have some fixed element of G, g.

as a ranges over the entire group G, doesn't ga as well?

that is, doesn't:

[tex]\bigcap_{a \in G} aHa^{-1} = \bigcap_{ga \in G} (ga)H(ga)^{-1}[/tex]
 

1. What does it mean for a group to be normal?

A normal subgroup is a subgroup that is invariant under conjugation by elements of the larger group. In other words, if we take any element in the normal subgroup and conjugate it by any element in the larger group, the resulting element will still be in the normal subgroup. This is also known as being "normalizer-invariant".

2. How do you prove that a subgroup is normal?

To prove that a subgroup N is normal, we must show that for every element g in the larger group G, the conjugate of N by g (denoted gNg^-1) is still equal to N. This can be done by showing that every element in N commutes with every element in G, or by showing that the left and right cosets of N in G are equal.

3. What is the significance of a normal subgroup?

Normal subgroups play an important role in group theory, as they are closely related to the concept of quotient groups. If N is a normal subgroup of G, then we can form the quotient group G/N, which is a new group whose elements are the cosets of N in G. Normal subgroups also allow us to classify groups into different types, such as abelian and non-abelian groups.

4. Can a subgroup be both normal and non-normal?

No, a subgroup cannot be both normal and non-normal at the same time. A subgroup is either normal or not normal in a particular group. However, a subgroup can be normal in one group and non-normal in another group.

5. How does the normality of a subgroup affect the structure of the larger group?

If a subgroup N is normal in a group G, then we can use the normality to simplify certain group operations. For example, the quotient group G/N inherits many properties from G, making it easier to study. Additionally, the normality of a subgroup can provide insight into the structure of the larger group, such as determining if the group is solvable or simple.

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