Prove the given properties - Ring Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving properties related to ring theory, specifically focusing on additive inverses and the distributive property within the context of rings. Participants explore various proofs and mathematical reasoning associated with these properties.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants demonstrate that for a ring, the additive inverse of a product can be shown using properties such as distributive and additive cancellation.
  • Others argue that the proof must clearly establish that ##(-a)b## is the additive inverse of ##ab##, emphasizing the need for proper notation and definitions.
  • Several participants discuss the implications of commutativity in ring operations, noting that rings are not necessarily commutative, which affects how certain properties can be manipulated.
  • One participant suggests that the proofs are contingent on how well the properties of rings are satisfied, indicating that there is no single method for proving these properties.
  • There is a repeated emphasis on the correct application of the distributive property and the need to avoid starting with what is to be proven.
  • Participants also explore specific proofs, such as showing ##(-a)(-b) = ab## and ##(-1)(a) = -a##, using various algebraic manipulations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express both agreement and disagreement on various points, particularly regarding the application of properties and the correctness of certain proofs. There is no consensus on a single approach to proving the properties discussed, and multiple viewpoints remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the importance of recognizing that ring multiplication is not necessarily commutative, which influences the proofs being discussed. Additionally, there are unresolved nuances regarding the definitions and properties of rings that affect the clarity of the arguments presented.

chwala
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TL;DR
I am looking at the basics here...Consider the attachment below. My intention is to try and prove ##2.11## from ##2## to ##4## and i would appreciate any constructive feedback.
1650109296654.png


Ok for ##1##, we also have,
##a⋅0=a⋅(0+0)=a⋅0 + a⋅0 ## We know that ##a⋅0=0 ## by additive cancellation.

For ##2.11##, Number ##2##;
We first show and prove that
##-b=-1⋅b##
adding ##b## on both sides,
##-b+b=0## for the lhs
##-1⋅b +1⋅b=b(-1+1)=b(0)=0## for the rhs
therefore,
##(-a)b=(-1⋅a)b=-1(ab)=-(ab)## using distributive property...
also,
##a⋅(-b)=a⋅-1⋅b=-1⋅(a⋅b)=-1(ab)=-(ab)##
Will look at (3) and (4) later...
 
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For number 2) you need to show that, for example:
$$(-a) b + a b = a b + (-a) b = 0$$Hence, by definition:$$(-a)b = -(ab)$$ is the additive inverse of ##ab##.
 
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So in general, we are just checking as to whether the ring additive axioms are satisfied, right?...I can see that you have used commutative property and the additive inverse property to show this...in my case I could say that I made use of the distributive property...
In showing these proofs, there isn't any general rule right? The way is to check how the problem fits/satisfies the ring property axioms...

I also read on the Field which basically has more axioms satisfied ( ie For Real, rational and complex numbers)as compared to the Ring. (Integers)...
 
The problem with what you did was that you didn't fully recognise that ##-(ab)## is, by notational definition, the additive inverse of ##ab##. And that we have to show that ##(-a)b##, which is the additive inverse of ##a## multiplied by ##b##, is also the additive inverse of ##ab##.
 
PeroK said:
The problem with what you did was that you didn't fully recognise that ##-(ab)## is, by notational definition, the additive inverse of ##ab##. And that we have to show that ##(-a)b##, which is the additive inverse of ##a## multiplied by ##b##, is also the additive inverse of ##ab##.
Thanks, yes that's true...I can see that now.
 
@PeroK hi, by the way could i also be right in using,
if ##a=b## and ##b=c## then it follows that, ##a=c##
##a-b=0## and ##b-c=0##, ##⇒a-b+b-c=0##

therefore in our problem we shall have,
##(-a)b=-(ab)##
##(-a)b- - (ab)=0##

also,
##-(ab)=a(-b)##
##-(ab)-a(-b)=0##,

on adding them,
##(-a)b- -(ab)+-(ab)-a(-b)=0##
##(-a)b+(ab)-(ab)-a(-b)=0##
##(-a)b-a(-b)=0##
##(-a)b=a(-b)## thus completing our proof.
 
chwala said:
therefore in our problem we shall have,
##(-a)b=-(ab)##
##(-a)b- - (ab)=0##
You can't start with what you are asked to prove. Try starting with $$(-a)b + ab = \dots$$
 
PeroK said:
You can't start with what you are asked to prove. Try starting with $$(-a)b + ab = \dots$$
ok, i may have, ##(-a)b+ab=b(-a+a)=b⋅0=0##
also, ##-(ab)+ab=0##
also,##(a)-b+ab=a(-b+b)=a⋅0=0## therefore ##(-a)b=-(ab)=(a)-b##
 
Last edited:
chwala said:
ok, i may have, ##(-a)b+ab=b(-a+a)=b⋅0=0##
A ring is not necessarily commutative, so you can't swap the order like that:$$(-a)b+ab=(-a+a)b=(0)b=0$$
chwala said:
also, ##-(ab)+ab=0## ##⇒(-a)b=-(ab)##
That's not quite right either. $$ (-a)b+ab = 0 \ \Rightarrow \ (-a)b = -(ab)$$
chwala said:
also,##(a)-b+ab=a(-b+b)=a⋅0=0## therefore our proof is complete.
Okay, but ##a(-b)## is better than ##(a)-b##
 
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  • #10
PeroK said:
A ring is not necessarily commutative, so you can't swap the order like that:$$(-a)b+ab=(-a+a)b=(0)b=0$$

That's not quite right either. $$ (-a)b+ab = 0 \ \Rightarrow \ (-a)b = -(ab)$$

Okay, but ##a(-b)## is better than ##(a)-b##
cheers gd day...
 
  • #11
chwala said:
cheers gd day...
It is abstract algebra; not slapdash algebra! :smile:
 
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  • #12
PeroK said:
A ring is not necessarily commutative, so you can't swap the order like that:$$(-a)b+ab=(-a+a)b=(0)b=0$$

That's not quite right either. $$ (-a)b+ab = 0 \ \Rightarrow \ (-a)b = -(ab)$$

Okay, but ##a(-b)## is better than ##(a)-b##
noted on this; $$(-a)b+ab=(-a+a)b=(0)b=0$$ thanks...i will read more on that...i had thought that for a set to be considered a ring, then it has to satisfy commutativity...which you are saying it is not always the case...
 
  • #13
chwala said:
noted on this; $$(-a)b+ab=(-a+a)b=(0)b=0$$ thanks...i will read more on that...i had thought that for a set to be considered a ring, then it has to satisfy commutativity...which you are saying it is not always the case...
Ring multiplication is not necessarily commutative. Ring addition is commutative, of course.
 
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  • #14
For ##3##,
We want to prove,
##(-a)(-b) =ab \\∀ a,b ∈ \mathbb{R}##

Using distributive property and using ##-(ab)## on lhs;
##(-a)(-b) -(ab)=-(a)(-b)-(ab)=[--(ab)]-(ab)=(ab)-(ab)=0##

Also using ##-(ab)## on rhs;
##ab-(ab)=ab - ab=0##,

therefore,
##(-a)(-b) =ab ∀ a, b ∈ \mathbb{R}##
 
Last edited:
  • #15
For ##4##,
We want to prove,
##(-1)(a) =-a \\∀ a ∈ \mathbb{R}##

For lhs, using distributive property;
##(-1)a + 1a=(-1+1)a=(0)a=0##
also for rhs, ##-a=-(1a)##
##⇒(-1)a- -a=(-1)a+a=(-1)a+1a=0##
thus ##(-1)a=-a##
 

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